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Author Topic: (Question) Can the effects be fractal?  (Read 339 times)

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Offline Chris_M_Thomasson

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(Question) Can the effects be fractal?
« on: July 08, 2021, 04:47:04 AM »
Well, there are little copies of her in a spiral. So, so far, so good? This seems fractal to me. Any thoughts?



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Offline Alef

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Re: Can the effects be fractal?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2021, 10:33:25 AM »
I gues she don't have the property of self simmilarity at a different scales even if the arms have curvature of mandelbrot set zooms. So maybe a spiral caleidoscope.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 02:58:13 PM by Alef »
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Offline velvet

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Re: Can the effects be fractal?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2021, 11:06:29 AM »
 :clapping:  I cannot answer the question but I really enjoyed the video, had me bouncing in my seat.

Offline youhn

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Re: Can the effects be fractal?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2021, 10:09:51 PM »
Nope, not a real fractal. Just a small piece of what could be a fractal (according to what seems to be the general consensus at the moment).

Just like a line segment is never a real line.

The strange thing is that in reality there are no such things as "real" fractals and lines. These are ideal models we can use as tools to think and reason. Same as concepts like nothing, endless, forever, etc. While these ideas tend to cause trouble for actual calculations (with our current computers and programming languages) our lazy brain can handle these concepts perfectly.

Offline Chris_M_Thomasson

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Re: Can the effects be fractal?
« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2021, 02:11:25 AM »
Nope, not a real fractal. Just a small piece of what could be a fractal (according to what seems to be the general consensus at the moment).

Just like a line segment is never a real line.

The strange thing is that in reality there are no such things as "real" fractals and lines. These are ideal models we can use as tools to think and reason. Same as concepts like nothing, endless, forever, etc. While these ideas tend to cause trouble for actual calculations (with our current computers and programming languages) our lazy brain can handle these concepts perfectly.

Check this out: ;^) smaller parts can make a larger object line of thought... Make any sense to you?

Offline 3DickUlus

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Re: Can the effects be fractal?
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2021, 02:33:07 AM »
self similar at any magnification?

edit: re video

the feedback loop is essentially a single point orbit trap of the camera viewing it's own display? offset and rotated at each iteration through the loop based on camera position and angle?

is a spiral a fractal? is Nyan cat a fractal?
« Last Edit: July 09, 2021, 04:32:22 AM by 3DickUlus, Reason: nyan »

Offline youhn

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Re: Can the effects be fractal?
« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2021, 06:56:53 AM »
Check this out: ;^) smaller parts can make a larger object line of thought... Make any sense to you?

Makes total visual sense, nice composition.

All real objects (anything you can show as example) is not really a fractal because it is finite. Still real world things can have fractal properties. In the line of thought "everything is a fractal" (which is plainly wrong) the idea of fractal can be applied in various ways. Surely the map of fractal shapes is near infinite, so look hard enough and you should always be able to find one that neatly maps to any example you can find.

One of life mysterious for me, is how does a tree change it's shape. I mean why is a flower so distinctly different than the rest of the plant/tree? This seems to bend the rule of self-similarity.

Offline hobold

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Re: Can the effects be fractal?
« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2021, 10:00:28 PM »
If I recall correctly, these were indeed produced by a video camera capturing its own output. In some sense this is an iterated function system with a single function. If both the camera and the display screen were perfect, the function would be a rather boring perspective projection, only ever mapping straight lines to straight lines.

But neither camera nor screens were ever free of distortion, and so the feedback introduced nonlinear warping of geometry and color. And you can "seed" any image/video as a starting point (or none, in which case the analog noise of the system served as a random seed); a little bit like an arbitrary picture as some sort of orbit trap.

Spirals are a very common occurrence, because it is pretty much impossible to hold camera and screen in perfect alignment.

If anybody were to reproduce these experiments again today, one could use image processing to simulate mirrors, lenses, semi-transparent mirrors, and so on, in order to arrive at a more complex "strange attractor" than just a spiral around a single fixed point.

Offline Chris_M_Thomasson

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Re: Can the effects be fractal?
« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2021, 10:22:36 PM »
Makes total visual sense, nice composition.

All real objects (anything you can show as example) is not really a fractal because it is finite. Still real world things can have fractal properties. In the line of thought "everything is a fractal" (which is plainly wrong) the idea of fractal can be applied in various ways. Surely the map of fractal shapes is near infinite, so look hard enough and you should always be able to find one that neatly maps to any example you can find.

One of life mysterious for me, is how does a tree change it's shape. I mean why is a flower so distinctly different than the rest of the plant/tree? This seems to bend the rule of self-similarity.

A Pseudo-Fractal can be a finite view of an Infinite Fractal?

Think of an infinite plant, growing... vs a finite one that finally dies: Fair enough?

Taking a snapshot of a plant in growth, would be a finite view of a potentially infinite process?

Sound crazy?  :skeptical:

Offline youhn

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Re: Can the effects be fractal?
« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2021, 10:35:36 PM »
Trying to be pragmatic I don't care either way, be it universal heat death or cyclic universes. Though at the moment I prefer the latter. Can be projected to the idea of another iteration of a big calculation loop.

The straight line is still king in both theoretical and experimental science. I wish the way of fractal geometry thinking some day can take over, in a practical and down to earth way. Still hoping to find some applicable methods in real life. For example how to incorporate fractal math to predict behaviour of rotary elastomeric lip seals, an intersection of fluid dynamics, thermal effects, elastic deformation, surface roughness, wear, etc. Small things in life can become quite complex when zoomed into the details. Sorry, spiralling off from central topic a bit.

Offline hgjf2

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Re: Can the effects be fractal?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2021, 08:24:18 AM »
Also fractal videofeedbacks in videoclips can be founded at clips "twenty 4 seven - I can't stand" and "Mamelino - scoate limba e senzational" and "How to make fractal without computer"(include "Cygnus X - Orange Theme") and "Tina Turner"(contain fractal made many tvtubes) and "Mache leaf".
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