(Question) Is the community dead?

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Offline Fraktalist

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« Reply #30 on: December 08, 2018, 11:12:27 PM »
I just posted the changes as an announcement

While writing, I noticed that users still have the option to manully create a thread in the image section of the forum (where previously also all the auto-generated threads were posted.

And that's good.

I think this is a nice way to keep a small option to present your really outstanding images.
I know I myself want to share and encourage discussion about a special image every now and then.
As long as this is not abused, I think it's a nice middle way.
And if it is abused and becomes a new source of "spam" we can still make that section read only..

Offline lycium

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« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2018, 12:48:35 AM »
What if the Mandelbulb had only been posted as the hard math ?
It more or less was, you might recall. Certainly I do, because I was the first to render it in 3D.

Again in terms of individual posts the number of "just an image" posts was far more on the old ff !!

... and how is that old FF doing these days? (Note: I am not saying that's definitely why it died, but ... <insert my opinion from earlier in this thread>.)


Anyway, glad to see this change come through, I'll try to be more active in the technical threads I see.

Offline xenodreambuie

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« Reply #32 on: December 09, 2018, 12:49:28 AM »
The changes are exactly what I would have wished for. I like seeing novel or really good images; those that are neither are welcome if they're part of a discussion, which is the primary purpose of forums.

Offline FractalDave

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« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2018, 04:00:38 AM »
It more or less was, you might recall. Certainly I do, because I was the first to render it in 3D.

... and how is that old FF doing these days? (Note: I am not saying that's definitely why it died, but ... <insert my opinion from earlier in this thread>.)


Anyway, glad to see this change come through, I'll try to be more active in the technical threads I see.

Initially there were few images of course as with anything so new, but until the views of the higher powers (as first suggested and rendered by Paul Nylander) became public "the thread" was fairly niche ;)
And image spamming was not the reason why the old ff stopped AFAIK.
The meaning and purpose of life is to give life purpose and meaning.

Offline FractalDave

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« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2018, 04:05:21 AM »
I still think we need a specific section for links - with sub-sections for say "fractal info" "fractal software" "free online galleries" "tutorials" "other" etc.
If worried about these being spammed just allow access via the specific section links and don't include them in the post feeds.

Offline mclarekin

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« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2018, 07:21:35 AM »
My two cents

I have not read all the posts above, and i nothing about websites.
I  didn't join until 2013, and then  FF seemed like a place for mainly uploading images, but there was also  a bit on maths and programming, which i ignored back then.

I suggest the basic structure is divided into two paths, Discussion etc   and Galleries.  Most images should go into personal galleries or program galleries, unless they are discussion related.

On home page have

View the most recent posts on the discussion forum.
View the most recent posts to the galleries


Add Edit: The galleries are an important part of attracting newbies. Then possibibly 1 in 1000 will then get interested in the maths and programming.

Yes the two path approach has some disadvantages  for some people (e.g Sabine and Tim ), sometimes there would be a need to post images in both paths, but just the first few images when using some new code.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 07:32:26 AM by mclarekin, Reason: another two cents »

Offline gerrit

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« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2018, 07:56:29 AM »
I do not like this change, it seems based on some random complaints of people I never see here anyways.
Taking image threads away is supposed to lead to more discussions because now there will be 5 posts a day to select from instead of 10?
What problem is this supposed to fix again?
Finally, I do not think the owners of image threads will appreciate having them locked without notification very much.
I don't think I'll continue here.

Offline RedshiftRider

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« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2018, 09:56:24 AM »
I like the change. Having the images on a separate feed like we did on the old forums seems like a good idea.

Offline marcm200

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« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2018, 10:39:27 AM »
I do not like this change, it seems based on some random complaints of people I never see here anyways.
Taking image threads away is supposed to lead to more discussions because now there will be 5 posts a day to select from instead of 10?
What problem is this supposed to fix again?
I agree. I joined about a month ago due to the image threads (after rediscovering my Lyapunov program) and posted daily since then. So I can be considered one of the "spammers". But is posting images that show something special I've not seen before, or are just nice to look at in image threads a problem? I'm sure nobody here just posts images for the sake of posting, so I think spammers are not here. If others do not want to see them, that's of course totally fine.

If I get it right, the complaints are about having to scroll through a list of new posts and having to skip over image threads? I mean they are clearly stating being image threads. So I don't really see a problem there.

Maybe a functionality in preferences like excluding topics from appearing in the "new and unread" part might help save some time.

In the gallery I have to create a thread for every image and post the information for others to be able to re-create it again and again. So the image threads provided a big advantage over that. Sorry to see them gone.




Offline Sabine62

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« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2018, 11:30:22 AM »
This is not about spamming, not about 'too much' images, but about the question what this forum should be about in the first place.

Some of you ask what the problem is with so many links to image threads/topics in the Recent Posts-overview.

For me it is this: Although I miss a background in maths and have no great understanding of fractal theory, I do try to understand and learn and this is the best place for me to come to. Here beautiful brains discuss fractals and many of them are even willing to take the trouble to explain stuff to me in laymen's terms (for which I am ever grateful!).
So I try to read all discussions on FF and I Know I have missed quite a few of really interesting threads because the amount of links to image threads in the Recent Posts is often a bit overwhelming to me. In skipping the image threads I just seem to often skip over discussions as well...  Not seeing the forest for the trees, that kind of thing.

And, since there are so few places where fractal theory is discussed that are accessible to me, to me it is important that the main interest of this forum should be fractal discussions and I think that should be visible 'on the outside'.

And maybe mclarekin's idea is all we need (if technically feasable):
Quote
On home page have

View the most recent posts on the discussion forum.
View the most recent posts to the galleries

Do not get me wrong: I Like the gallery, I love fractal images, I think I have posted enough and commented enough on images posted by others on here to have proof for that. Nothing shows off the potential of a formula as some good images of it.

So I do not want less images on here (keep them coming!), I want the discussions-threads and images separated.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 12:48:23 PM by Sabine62 »
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Offline Fraktalist

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« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2018, 08:16:58 PM »
So I do not want less images on here (keep them coming!), I want the discussions-threads and images separated.

Exactly on point.

And there is no simple checkbox in our settings to do exclude certain sections from appearing in unread/recent topics.
Oh wait, there is!
By using the gallery for images and the forum for discussion.
What is exactly what we are testing now.

If ending the experiment of image-threads is enough for you to turn your back on fractalforums.. sorry, but so be it.
Keep in mind, you guys still have our gallery to host as many of your images completely for free.
You can create user-galleries with subsections.
Check out pauldelbrots user gallery: https://fractalforums.org/index.php?action=gallery;su=user;u=97
We paid money to implement the "unviewed images"-button that leads you directly to a perfect overview of all the recent images.
You want to tell me this is not enough?


I do not like this change, it seems based on some random complaints of people I never see here anyways.
You don't see them anymore because they have given up, because the forum was no longer focussed on discussion but on image-presentation.
We have lost so many knowledgable people who don't raise their voice - because they no longer visit fractalforums.


And, since there are so few places where fractal theory is discussed that are accessible to me, to me it is important that the main interest of this forum should be fractal discussions and I think that should be visible 'on the outside'.
Perfectly phrased!



I can just repeat: We still have the gallery, upload hundreds of images, discuss, share parameters, comment, rate...
But let those who are here to talk, discuss and learn about fractals  do this in peace - undisturbed by a feed full of things they are not interested in.



If we find a simple solution to keep imagethreads from popping up in the forumfeed we will absolutely implement it.
But there is no simple checkbox in the settings for it. We're looking into it though.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 09:10:39 PM by Fraktalist »

Offline Fraktalist

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« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2018, 08:32:58 PM »
I suggest the basic structure is divided into two paths, Discussion etc   and Galleries.  Most images should go into personal galleries or program galleries, unless they are discussion related.

On home page have

View the most recent posts on the discussion forum.
View the most recent posts to the galleries

That sounds great and makes sense.
But the forum software doesn't offer that without major customization (if it is possible at all) - which would have to be re-done for every official update of the forum software.

We alreads do have the "unviewed images" button.
Also if you scroll to the bottom of the home page, there's all recent images in small, including a list of all recent gallery comments.

hm.. I agree, the gallery itself is a bit hidden in the top navigation.
Maybe we can put the gallery in a more prominent place. 3d, any ideas?
Like directly below the big header "fractalforums" add a slightly smaller "fractal gallery-->"
it should of course still look good and integrate well. (talking about yorky here, as this is the default and what newbies see)



I still think we need a specific section for links - with sub-sections for say "fractal info" "fractal software" "free online galleries" "tutorials" "other" etc.
If worried about these being spammed just allow access via the specific section links and don't include them in the post feeds.
I'm not worried that these will be spammed but rather that they remain mostly unused.
One thing we wanted to prevent, compared to fractalforums.com was the cluttered structure with hundreds of boards/sub/subsub and yes, subsubsub-boards. It was near impossible to find the proper section there.

Maybe we went too far into the oposite, minimalistic direction.
And yes, a link section makes sense (not sure about those sub-sections though)



« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 08:50:32 PM by Fraktalist »

Offline 3DickUlus

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« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2018, 08:40:40 PM »
@Frakt  :thumbs: ( a bit about themes, the "default" is the one SMF comes with and is guaranteed to work properly, Yorky has some conflicts with the way themes work in SMF, like theme image paths don't always propagate properly etc...)

to gerrit, marcm200, (and others) there is nothing stopping you  from continuing your "image threads" to post, they just don't have a special category that's up front and in your face, you will just have to chose an appropriate topic to post under, like math formulas or programming or... if they don't fit into any of the available categories then maybe that's a clue...

Posting in the gallery should be reserved for the best "Artsy" stuff you might actually print and frame, posting in your personal gallery should be for the stuff you like but may not be quite ready for prime-time, and here it is again, posting in threads should be for on-going discussion about a given formula or fancy bit of code or fractal related discovery or... get the idea?

(now don't get all pissy over this it's strictly hypothetical)
We could limit the size of files attached in threads to, uhm... 5k ? so that nothing more than a thumbnail is allowed or maybe limit it to just 1 or both? or even disallow attachment of images forcing all images to get posted in personal galleries. Another option is to host your own website on a machine at home that you can have complete control over (that's what I do  :yes: )

ok back from the hypothetical fantasy trip...

This is an awesome site with an incredible group of people that range from hobbyists to experts , don't throw away the opportunity to participate just because some button isn't the right color, seriously :-\
« Last Edit: December 09, 2018, 09:33:45 PM by 3DickUlus »
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Offline 3DickUlus

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« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2018, 10:03:02 PM »
oh... here's another bad idea from the worst diplomat ever ( this is why I'm not a moderator ;) )

We could have a "personal" thread for each user to post off topic rants, opinions, images, etc... that doesn't clutter up the recent posts list because it would only be visible to the user that created it and never show up anywhere else and then be extremely strict about posting everywhere else deleting off topic and hijack posts......

....but, alas, I think this is the exact kind of meatball rhetoric that turns people off, I'm sure that lots have looked at this thread and just rolled their eyes asking themselves "really?".

Offline RedshiftRider

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« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2018, 10:11:06 PM »
The "community" isn't dead, it seems to be committing suicide via slow poisoning by the addiction to personal indulgence of the members.
The site is what it is and we should be adapting by using what it has, as is, instead of trying to beat it into submission.
True, it is impossible to meet everyone's demands but we can at least try to improve the site to find solutions to make the site more pleasant for everyone.

Edit: apparently the post got removed?
Was there really need to do that? While I did not agree a reply to clear things up seems more logical than straight up removing a post.


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