god versus science

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Offline quaz0r

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« on: September 04, 2019, 06:37:31 AM »
gerrit's posts on god and fractal theory got me thinking how it has always struck me as so clearly braindead when people phrase questions about the nature of reality in terms of god/religion versus evolution or god/religion versus science.  as if holding a magnifying glass up to people and the sorts of objects we are used to dealing with in our everyday lives would reveal nothing more than fairy dust and glitter i guess, in the case of "god" being "the answer."  and if you were to zoom in and find molecules and atoms and things then i guess that means "science" is "the answer."

as if painting rough approximations with a bucket of fairy dust would somehow be more impressive or more godlike than creating a universe of atoms which self-assemble into such infinitely rich and varied complex organizations and systems as what we see around us!  even in the case that the universe is in effect a dream held in the mind of some greater consciousness, then yes, that dream is in fact of a universe of self-assembling energy, not a dream of rocks and tables and dogs and people crafted out of rainbows and fairy dust 2000 years ago.  the latter is a human dream, and a rather hilariously stupid one at that.

Linkback: https://fractalforums.org/off-topic/29/god-versus-science/3046/

Offline i.AM.A.i

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« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2019, 12:09:10 AM »
 Very Well stated...
...but here is the thing...The Bible clearly states that The Earth is Billions years old.
If we can agree someone is using corrupted data (Biblical Illiterate Christians i.e.) to teach everyone about GOD, then it is up to you as a "RESEARCHER" to follow and/or do the correct translations and calculations for a clearer view.
Exhibit A: The Bible in the Old Testament referred to "AGES" Hebrew Billions.
Exhibit B: The New Testament same English word in Greek is EON.
Billions Years. Used at least three times.
The Bible backs up Science actually, and if You Iterate and Render enough times, you will even see Science Back up GOD.
There are many places in the Bible that appear contradictory, I can assure you most the time it was a interpreters error, or a similar event happened some other time.
How different is GOD then US?  Let me use simple contradictory...
You and I know the Sun never sets right? Yet every evening WE experience one.
The ability to set your mind to understand something over your head is why I first started using MB3D. I'm a mathematical idiot but I understand why it works, but not necessarily how it works. Should I disqualify Math because I don't Understand it?
Course not.
There is a Treasure Map, everyone has access to it, just because not everyone has found anything, does it mean you should throw your copy away? without at least looking at what it says, and not what everyone else says it says?
Just like before Computers e couldn't image the Fractals We see today, We know they are there, Same with God Dude!
That's Dogma.

Offline 3DickUlus

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« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2019, 01:43:45 AM »
The Bible is a creation of man.

God is a creation of man (to keep us from going insane when dealing with life's day to day struggles)

Science can tell us exactly how a light bulb works, right down to the atoms, electrons and photons... but can anyone say why it works that way?

Offline mrrudewords

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« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2019, 05:57:59 PM »
And on the sixth day... Man created God.
Z = Z2 + C (obvs)

Offline 3DickUlus

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« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2019, 01:45:21 AM »
ok chiken and egg, I think God would have to be created first in order for that whole week to make any sense... not that it makes sense to begin with but that's exactly why the entity was created, to explain the explainable, it is the will of... ( insert favorite deity here )

Offline Alef

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« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2019, 06:37:26 PM »
Bible do not stands against evolution. Unless it is taken too literary.
I think G-od + science.

+ Cantors theorem about absolute infinity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absolute_Infinite
He went crazy after this. But he researched infinity to understand the G-od mathematicaly. His absolute infinity is G-od. And aleph one is part of mathematics (world of creation).
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Offline RedshiftRider

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« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2019, 09:37:15 PM »
Personally I think the idea of having elementary particles (or whatever might be beyond that) with specfic rules applied to them a pretty graceful idea. Whether those rules are due to a creator or not is something we can't know with our current knowledge and maybe we'll never be able to find out. I also think it is definitely weird to say that beliefs and science are complete opposites, they are categorically different but certainly not opposites.

This might get into philosophy for a bit but bear with me. A while back I had a discussion on what effect scientific materialism could have on free will. I am of the opinion that when it comes to these types of questions, everything we can know about the state of consciousness is pretty important. Some might argue that because there are preset rules, there can't be free will but I think free will may very will be possible but witin a specific boundary.

As I see it, if you've got a system with a preset rules, everything that happens within that system will be following the rules. However it doesn't necessarily limit the possibilities within that system (just like there is an infinite set between 1 and 2 or two other numbers). As we see with fractals, where we set the rules for what we render. While we can at large determine how we want everything to generate there are plenty of instances that we come across unique occurances despite the set rules. This might be that there are some things at play we haven't considered, because we can't know every single variation within the rules (insert forum motto here). This is why fractals are such a plentiful source of art.

This plays into the whole argument of free will, evolution and the idea of omnipotence:

When it comes to free will, even if there are preset rules, regardless of whether a deity is involved or not, there could still be an infinitely large number of ways those rules interact. At this point in time we just haven't completely figured out the rules and even if we did then there is no way we could know every single detail that could happen within the universe. In case of evolution, I think evolution could happen with either a deity or without a deity. In case of creation there are some obvious issues as there are things such as vestigial organs which indicate that creatures either aren't perfect or have unnecessary features. In this case assisted evolution would be a more logical idea.

I'll finish with something interesting in which set rules can also be restrictive. I've heard from a number of people that the idea of omnipotence could possibly make make the last paragraph I wrote redundant but as a concept, omnipotence has some flaws and is paradoxical. Here we're again talking about rules and how things can happen within them:

When the idea of omnipotence is brought up I usually ask people what they think an omnipotent being is capable of. In particular, I ask them whether an omnipotent being can do something that is not logically possible (like making a rock that is so heavy that even the omnipotent being itself can't lift it). In all cases so far, they said that would be logically impossible, this makes that anything an omnipotent being could do would have to be within it's logical nature. This makes that my mustache eligible to be labeled as omnipotent:

The only thing my mustache can do within that is within it's logical nature is growing but that would also make it eligible to be classified as omnipotent because it can to anything that is within it's logical nature. (Source:
« Last Edit: October 20, 2019, 10:09:04 PM by RedshiftRider »

Offline gerrit

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« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2019, 04:48:10 AM »
Instead of a single omnipotent God, why not have infinitely many impotent Gods?

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