Global warming

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Offline Fraktalist

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« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2020, 09:54:48 PM »
the question is, do you prefer to believe "a commentor of my latest blog article did the research and found that it's 1.6% consensus, not 97%"
or would you rather listen to:

Academia Brasiliera de Ciências (Bazil)
Royal Society of Canada
Chinese Academy of Sciences
Academié des Sciences (France)
Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina (Germany)
Indian National Science Academy
Accademia dei Lincei (Italy)
Science Council of Japan
Russian Academy of Sciences
Royal Society (United Kingdom)
National Academy of Sciences (United States of America)
Australian Academy of Sciences
Royal Flemish Academy of Belgium for Sciences and the Arts
Caribbean Academy of Sciences
Indonesian Academy of Sciences
Royal Irish Academy
Academy of Sciences Malaysia
Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand
Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences
NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS)
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
National Academy of Sciences (NAS)
State of the Canadian Cryosphere (SOCC)
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
Royal Society of the United Kingdom (RS)
American Geophysical Union (AGU)
American Institute of Physics (AIP)
National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR)
American Meteorological Society (AMS)
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (CMOS)

who all officially are part of the "non existing" consensus..
https://grist.org/climate-energy/there-is-no-consensus/

you can find every opinion "proven" online. indeed the difficulty is to find out which is true..

Offline Tas_mania

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« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2020, 10:56:02 PM »
If 'climate change' is 'human induced' then look at the World Population Clock?
https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/
Sure enough there are well over twice as many births than deaths every day.
So how many humans are too many on a limited planet?

I'm surprised that nearly 100% of World leaders are unable to name a figure on the carrying capacity of Planet Earth.
Yet these are the people who spend their lives 'managing' everything?

I know for sure that 1.4 billion Chinese people have to build a global empire just to survive. India is right behind them and soon the footprint of just 2 countries will cover half the planet. So lets go back to sleep like Neville Chamberlain did in 1939. Your going to die whether you are informed, uniformed, ultra smart or ultra dumb.


Offline 3DickUlus

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« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2020, 02:08:15 AM »
...we need a BS vs TRUTH button on every page of the internet, and when the BS button gets hit too many times the page gets deleted, however, simply due to human nature that idea would fail because the wrong stuff would get deleted as it would be exploited by personal and corporate reasoning.

( nothing to do with global warming but everything to do with human behavior patterns that lead us to this current state, mostly caused by greed )
Fragmentarium is not a toy, it is a very versatile tool that can be used to make toys ;)

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Offline Bill Snowzell

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« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2020, 08:27:14 PM »
I remember very clearly back in the early 70's there was talk of a mini Ice Age bearing in mind no computer modeling was around. Later in the early 90's we were told by the same "experts" to expect a mediterranean style weather climate, now apparently we can expect to get blown away by ever stronger storms, flooding and lastly we will burn in hell.  They seem to have covered all the bases in my lifetime,  but here in my locality and with a lifetime of working outside in all weathers  things have been much the same. Of course the odd weather sequence gets out of kilter and we have colder winters hotter summers etc.etc.   Since the onset of  computer weather modeling and computer,  forecasting we are  apparently doomed.  I live on the English Welsh border area the weather changes every three days or so.   I have no opinion on "climate change" or as it was called twenty years ago "global warming" Climate change is what I consider "normal" weather patterns at my location because it changes so often, Data I get from a weather station in the garden show no upward or downward trends over many years at my location.  Plastic pollution is the biggest threat for the near future!!!!

Offline hobold

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« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2020, 11:43:35 PM »
Sometime in the middle of the 1980s, a math teacher in a provincial German school asked his teenage students what they knew about global warming. Some kids were unaware; some said they had heard of it, and it was coming. One child answered "it's already here, and we'll all have to deal with it".

That particular boy had an unfair advantage. His dad was a self taught entomologist, botanist, and archeologist. This dad had spent maybe 40 years watching insect species migrate from northern Africa to southern Europe. Or migrate from southern Europe to central Europe. Or migrate from central Europe to northern Europe.

Among the friends of said dad were bird watchers and ornithologists. They had observed groups of migratory birds not making the trek all the way to Africa, but stop in Spain. Or starting their trek very late in a season. Or even not making that journey at all in a particularly warm season.

This particular dad also dug up fossils from various prehistoric ages. On one particularly noteworthy occasion, dad found a fossilized eel in black slate. At the time it was found, it was the only known eel from that era (around 20 million years old) in slate. That eel is now property of the Senckenberg Museum in Frankfurt am Main, Germany. Not sure if it is currently on display. Since then, a handful more eels have been found in other (slate) dig sites around the world.

Most of the fossils were nowhere near as spectacular, and so dad was allowed to keep many of them. There was a tiny natural history museum in the basement. So to his children, a scientific look at the planet and its history was never in question. (There is even an anecdote how that got one of his kids in trouble with a teacher of religion.)

So, that boy in math class had a very well informed source. A very trustworthy source. A dad that had seen a world changing, developing, constantly reshaping itself - quite different from the immutable, unquestionable, unchanging divine creation that several religions postulate. And the boy could rely on a body of observations that is still much too small to derive a theory about all of the globe, but bigger than just a decade of weather in a single spot on earth.

So one could say that my take on climate change is very personal. Seeing a teenage school kid talking about the reality of climate change is not all so new to me, not all so unthinkable.

The moral of the story, though, is how awesome of a character that math teacher was. He might not have been a good math teacher, but a good mathematician, and a good teacher. I am still trying to be as wise, as witty, and as entertaining as he was.

Offline Caleidoscope

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« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2020, 01:17:07 AM »
the question is, do you prefer to believe "a commentor of my latest blog article did the research and found that it's 1.6% consensus, not 97%"
or would you rather listen to:

Academia Brasiliera de Ciências (Bazil)
Royal Society of Canada
Chinese Academy of Sciences
Academié des Sciences (France)
Deutsche Akademie der Naturforscher Leopoldina (Germany)
Indian National Science Academy
Accademia dei Lincei (Italy)
Science Council of Japan
Russian Academy of Sciences
Royal Society (United Kingdom)
National Academy of Sciences (United States of America)
Australian Academy of Sciences
Royal Flemish Academy of Belgium for Sciences and the Arts
Caribbean Academy of Sciences
Indonesian Academy of Sciences
Royal Irish Academy
Academy of Sciences Malaysia
Academy Council of the Royal Society of New Zealand
Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences
NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies (GISS)
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)
National Academy of Sciences (NAS)
State of the Canadian Cryosphere (SOCC)
Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)
Royal Society of the United Kingdom (RS)
American Geophysical Union (AGU)
American Institute of Physics (AIP)
National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR)
American Meteorological Society (AMS)
Canadian Meteorological and Oceanographic Society (CMOS)

who all officially are part of the "non existing" consensus..
https://grist.org/climate-energy/there-is-no-consensus/

you can find every opinion "proven" online. indeed the difficulty is to find out which is true..

That's why there should be an open, independent, transparant discussion on tv as. international with all the great minds in the world, both pro and contra and they should discuss t openly, and show facts so everybody on this planet can follow it, no secret meetings or lobbyist, companies and organisation with political, economical hidden agenda's.  But that is never going to happen. 

I live in the Netherlands and the government is gonna force us to no longer use gas  for cooking and heating as. for we have to be  entirely 'green'  so solar, wind as.  (with batteries that are anything but sustainable) and that is gonna cost an average household about 30-50.000 euro to get their house from gas to solar as.  (ridiculous) For in the countries around us, like Belgium, Germany etc. they will get a lot of money if they are willing to start using gas in stead of sources like coal and wood. Can you still follow it?  The Dutch I know are rather angry with the madness of this government. They wil bring us down for most people can't afford so much money to rebuild their house in such a way. And they force it by making gas more and more expensive and they want to put extra taxes if you don't comply etc. A lot of people are worried  how far they will take this... They want to build thousands of windmills on the Northsea (The English too)  But they know that the wicks, the shadow and the wind, and the magnetic field each windmill produces will have maybe even a devastating effect on the marine-life. And that will not have an effect on the climate? We have some brand-new coal-fired power station, they've cost billions and have the best of the best in filters etc.as clean as can be, but they close them down. Only they know that no matter what we do, we will still need a backup system 'standby' to be able to provide energy to every household (cars)  It looks like chaos. The trust in our government has never been so low as today.

If the true facts are on the table and there is a need to do something, change something,I'm sure people are willing to sacrifice some, but we have to do it worldwide and it have to make sense. And now it doesn't. 

Well that is my humble opinion, I like to follow a lot about this subject but we are far away from any consensus on this matter. And like Tas_mania said, the biggest problems has it's root in overpopulation.  It is impossible that we can go on like this.
In 1804 we reached about the first billion humans on this planet.
133 years later in 1927, the second billion.
But it took only 33 years to reach the three billion in 1960.
And now we are 7.8 billion which will  grow and grow.

Have a good night!

Offline 3DickUlus

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« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2020, 01:46:45 AM »
Mother Nature will have her way with us no matter what we do, corona and sars viruses is Mother Nature's attempt to cull the herd. If we survive those (and others to come) she will still find a way to balance things and unfortunately many many of us may perish.

disclaimer: this opinion is based entirely on a lifetime of observation with no documentation... but I invite you all to just look around and pay attention to how the natural systems behave.

Offline Alef

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« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2020, 10:54:22 AM »
There are a thing called a "Hockey stick graph" or "Climate Stick ". Naturaly it indeed would be going to a small ice age. But then it's sharp rise:


Eco, green and carbon dioxide is often opposite. Greens protest against  nuclear power plants with no CO2. Hydro Power is alternative but it requires authoritarian goverments. But in my country there were something called OIK. It's something about green energy but it could be corrupt scheme to get more money from end users of electicity. Politicaly afilliated buisnesses don't realy produce any valuable energy but get 2x the price for electricity. (my language skill is not enought to explain.)
So it's understandable why they "don't believe'.  They just don't want to pay.
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Offline quaz0r

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« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2020, 05:24:48 PM »
the climate change debate is fucking stupid.  sorry, but not sorry.  are you fucking kidding me you human idiots?

here are the two possible scenarios:  we are turning this planet into one giant fucking toxic landfill, and it's affecting the climate.

or:

we are turning this planet into one giant fucking toxic landfill, and its not affecting the climate quite so much as we might have thought maybe.

which argument is to be had here exactly?  its all a liberal conspiracy theory so fuck you im going to slather myself in shit because maybe i wont get infected with horrible diseases from it eventually?  um.  wut?  serious?

if you are into reality and want to take it a step further however,

climate change doesnt explain the myriad of fucked up shit that is happening to us right now.  earthquakes.  volcanoes.  something is going on.  it isnt climate change.  i mean it is, on one hand.  but that is only an afterthought to what is really going on.

Offline 3DickUlus

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« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2020, 02:07:19 AM »
@quaz0r mind your language please.

In this dynamic closed system (for the most part closed aside from cosmic dust that gets caught in our gravity well) global warming is a symptom, treating the symptom doesn't cure the problem causing it. edit: if indeed it is a problem, rather, a few variables in the dynamic system that are naturally part of the life cycle of this system.

Change is the only constant and our human brains need to blame it on someone/thing other than ourselves because we are not united by goals and desires. We are all encouraged to be self aware but we need to be more collectively aware of the dynamic system we call home.

Offline lycium

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« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2020, 03:02:11 AM »
...we need a BS vs TRUTH button on every page of the internet, and when the BS button gets hit too many times the page gets deleted

Someone else had that idea already, and wrote a book about it. There's nothing to be gained from suppressing idiots who believe in flat earth, or that climate change is a Chinese hoax, from squabbling amongst themselves; however, as the latter case hints, people who do not understand the primacy of logic and science in forming policy should not hold public office. I think it's pretty ridiculous how everyone needs a licence to drive a car, but they'll give the nuclear codes without any kind of basic competence checks to any random cheeseburger oompa loompa who can win a 2-person popularity contest with massive funding and vested interests.

TL;DR let the fools make all the YouTube videos and Facebook posts they want, just don't let an antiscientific illiterate moron like Trump control the most powerful nation on Earth.

PS. I absolutely love reading flat earth and other pseudoscience crap, a real trashy pleasure ;D Here's an example I found in the wild: https://i.imgur.com/6uwRwWK.png
« Last Edit: February 16, 2020, 03:14:09 AM by lycium »


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