Question about usage in general

  • 9 Replies
  • 313 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Xerilon

  • *
  • Fractal Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 4
« on: April 03, 2018, 02:37:54 PM »
Hello, I have just recently discovered the power of MB3D and fractal making.

What I have learned so far:
Create and animate, light, rendering and mesh and stack exports. Brilliant! I have also managed to use decominate and the max/min things and "repeat from here" and so on to some degree.

But this is the problem:
It seems like there is little to no information about what the formulas do to each other or how they work together along with all the various settings (which is many). I can find no manual or explanation on the rules of why certain formulas don't work together and give errors. It is all just hit and miss without much direction other than the fact that you learn by repeating what works and what doesn't.

My goal is to be able to design fractals by planning based on the rules of the program, but the rules are highly unclear.
I have no idea why one combination results in a useless spiky dust cloud, and another turn out like a beautiful broccoli of colors, but I write down combos that work and discard what doesn't.

Since I haven't found a tutorial that explains functions very well, I have used params from Deviantart to see how they were made, but it is often confusing as I have had to replicate every single setting, and if I overlook one it doesn't work. Besides copying is not the same as understanding.

As we know from 3d modeling, when we extrude a polygon it is pretty obvious what happens, but when you change a fractal formula setting that is not available in navi from 1.12345 to 1.12346 the fractal might change to something completely different and you have no idea what happened...
Is this really how fractal software work?

I am not angry, just confused :)

Offline spain2points

  • *
  • Fractal Phenom
  • ****
  • Posts: 56
« Reply #1 on: April 03, 2018, 05:34:55 PM »
There are tuts explaining then (one of mine among them), but here it is:

- Scapetime Formulas
- Difs formulas
- Transformations to Scapetime Formulas
- Transformations to Difs

In Alternate mode you can combine scapetime formulas, using 1 to 6 formulas (there's a MB3D versión with 8 slots, too)

In Decombinate you can create 2 part hybrids. It can be Scapetime + Scapetime or Scapetime + Difs. In DeCombinate you can mix those parts in six different ways.

You can even use Decombinate creating an hybrid that's: A Scapetime transformation + Difs.

As for what the exact result is, you get a sense after a while of what certain formulas achieve. Even just searching a specific formula in deviantart will give you that sense. Also, part of the fun is coming up with an specific combo that noone has created before. It's just a neverending fractal universe to explore.

Since I began using MB3d I have created something like 13000 parameters. Of course, most of them are just exploration, things that "have something", first steps in an exploration, etc. If I look at the first things I came up with, it's full of spiky things, clouds, as you say, useless stuff. I can only say that it gets better, it's just like driving, you get the hang of it and become more effortless in time. But the first steps are harder. You'll work faster with it, I won't even stop to think in the stuff that is not interesting, because when you create something good it makes up for the rest.

Offline Xerilon

  • *
  • Fractal Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 4
« Reply #2 on: April 03, 2018, 06:11:02 PM »
Well thank you for that clarification!

Yes I know there are countless possibilities for uniqueness, and that is important, and I undestand how one gets the hang of it by creating and creating, it just seems a bit like fumbling in the dark. You will get better at that too in time, but it's still dark ;)

I'll start by learning the combination rules you mentioned, and hope that things stablize a bit!

Offline spain2points

  • *
  • Fractal Phenom
  • ****
  • Posts: 56
« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2018, 09:14:03 PM »
I forgot to mention the possibility in Alternate to just work with Difs. Those are easy and fun. Try Transform in one slot and Sphere (or any other shape you prefer) in the next one.

Cheers

Offline Xerilon

  • *
  • Fractal Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 4
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2018, 11:34:43 PM »
Ok, so I get it, all difs with "transform" in their naming is a special kind of thing to work with difs "shapes" of various kinds?
Actually good to know, but it seems to be yet another mystical layer of complexity :p Because I found out that in Alternate many difs don't work together yet some do, but I could not understand why :)

Are you sure there is no User Manual to this program?



Offline mclarekin

  • *
  • Fractal Furball
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2018, 04:26:14 AM »
@ spain2points. Excellent summarization O0

@  Xerilon. 
Quote
Are you sure there is no User Manual to this program
No manual, but a wealth of tutorials, settings files, and helpful M3D users.  :)

Writing a manual would be a big undertaking for someone ( from my Mandelbulber experience I can tell you it can not be described as  a fun thing to do.)

Offline mclarekin

  • *
  • Fractal Furball
  • ***
  • Posts: 201
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2018, 05:00:16 AM »
@  Xerilon
Quote
As we know from 3d modeling, when we extrude a polygon it is pretty obvious what happens, but when you change a fractal formula setting that is not available in navi from 1.12345 to 1.12346 the fractal might change to something completely different and you have no idea what happened...
Is this really how fractal software work?
My advice is that first  understanding how the basic Abox  formula works is a good starting point. Just  folding,scaling and adding the original point  coordinates. You need to view from some different zoom levels to get a good overview of how the parameters are morphing the fractal. In some locations a small decimal change to scale or minimum R2 makes huge differences.
Also on chaostube there is some good videos showing visually how the iterating of the transformations creates the fractal.

Offline Xerilon

  • *
  • Fractal Freshman
  • *
  • Posts: 4
« Reply #7 on: April 04, 2018, 11:14:11 AM »
Ok, I understand ;)
Thanks I'll experiment with the Abox!

And cool tip about Chaostube, I didn't know about it :)

Offline Kalter Rauch

  • *
  • Fractal Feline
  • **
  • Posts: 154
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2018, 10:29:22 PM »
I've currently got v1.9.9 open
and I've gotten Mp3 files working,
but for some reason
the parameters, lighting/color, and postprocessing windows
don't show when tabs are clicked.

I haven't seen any such situations talked about.
What is occuring?

The same thing happened
with the earlier v1.9.1 I tried.

________________________

Problem solved...ie. there never was a problem.
The windows weren't missing after all.
They were just underneath the main rendering window... :fp:
« Last Edit: May 05, 2018, 02:43:14 AM by Kalter Rauch »

Offline Kalter Rauch

  • *
  • Fractal Feline
  • **
  • Posts: 154
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2018, 01:42:45 AM »
Is there any cause for the Navigator to just stop with the last nav. screen showing
but won't accept any inputs,
even though formulas, etc. still accepting inputs
with main rendering window normal?
Resetting to default single formula doesn't affect frozen Navi.
Closing/restarting M3D seems the only solution.

I'm using the latest M3D version.

___________________________

On the Upside,
The M3D PTB have created an amazing program.
Lately I've been getting weird ideas using the Mutagen module.


xx
General information about Mandel Machine

Started by Dinkydau on Mandel Machine

4 Replies
373 Views
Last post May 05, 2018, 01:15:57 PM
by julofi
xx
Reducing CPU Usage?

Started by zxs on Mandelbulb3d

6 Replies
101 Views
Last post July 14, 2018, 09:37:28 PM
by Kalter Rauch
clip
FLAM3 and palette usage

Started by rbag183 on Programming

3 Replies
66 Views
Last post June 13, 2018, 08:44:28 PM
by claude
xx
Depth of field usage

Started by Micha1982 on Mandelbulber

8 Replies
136 Views
Last post April 07, 2018, 07:44:31 AM
by Micha1982
xx
Greetings... I have a question! :D

Started by vrana on Meet & Greet

5 Replies
236 Views
Last post March 02, 2018, 10:20:36 PM
by vrana