• November 28, 2021, 03:56:43 AM

Author Topic:  Incendia and overheating.  (Read 448 times)

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Offline Caleidoscope

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Incendia and overheating.
« on: October 10, 2020, 02:11:18 PM »
Almost all fractal software use up a lot of cpu power while rendering. My computer was (about 4 years ago) especially build to be able to perform well in rendering fractals.  But the software gets more complicated and better etc. Even with Jux and even sometimes with JWildfire my computer freezes, especially when working on the edge and using HD pictures used within the fractal render. (env.maps and materials etc.)   Incendia is definitly (in my humble opinion) software that demands 'all' of your cpu power. and freezes quickly and you can hardly do anything else while rendering.

Last week, the core got overheated and I got a black screen with this warning. Well I forced the computer off. Get to sleep and luckily the next morning it all worked well again. But a bit worried rendering again. So when rendering a fractal, I paused it every half hour... rather complicated of course, but I like Incendia;)

Today I found out that there is an option in the menu - Fractal, down left corner where you can choose how many threads you want it rendered. Standard it is on max 8 threads and all cpu-cores,  so 4.   I never paid any attention to it before, and didn't know you could change it so easily  :fp:   Now I lowered the number of threads to half, so to 4 threads instead of 8 - cpu-core stays at 4.  And I'm glad that now while rendering, it only use up around 80% of the capacity. Better, no overheating and still able to do other things as well. It will all take a bit longer maybe but a lot safer, at least for my computer and my peace of mind ;)

Ok not very important news, but for those who like Incendia  and have the same problem it might help.
Grtz.

Linkback: https://fractalforums.org/index.php?topic=3808.0

Offline hobold

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Re: Incendia and overheating.
« Reply #1 on: October 10, 2020, 03:49:11 PM »
After a few years of use, a computer can suffer from increased temperatures due to a number of "common" reasons:

 - there can  be dust on the dust filters of the computer case
 - there can be dust on the fans and heatsinks
 - and there can be dust on the fan of the power supply

All three of the above are caused by the large amount of air that got forced through the computer system over the years. If you are comfortable opening the case (with the usual precautions of unplugging power and unplugging all other cables), this dust can be cleaned up. The case's dust filters are often designed to be removeable without opening the case. If you use a vacuum cleaner, turn it to low strength to prevent damaging any fan blades.

 - the "thermal paste" between CPU and processor heatsink can have "dried up" after a few years

This requires a bit more technical knowledge, or at least courage :) to do. If you have never mounted a CPU cooler yourself, you might want to watch a few videos first. And then find out exactly which cooler you have and what its specific mounting mechanism is (some screw holes are standardized, but there is no standard as to which struts or clamps or locks are getting fastened in there).

Get some replacement thermal paste first, then unmount the heatsink from the processor. Clean both surfaces thoroughly of all residue of the old paste before applying the new one.

 - finally, some of the fans can have gone defective over the years, and don't rotate as fast as they used to, or not at all anymore

These would need to be replaced with new ones, unless you are a mechatronics expert.

Offline Caleidoscope

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Re: Incendia and overheating.
« Reply #2 on: October 10, 2020, 04:22:36 PM »
Thanks Hobold for your explanation and tips and tricks how to improve/repair it.   :love:  I think there will be more members here that will benefit from it.  The coming week(s) a friend of mine will come here to re-connect my double backup ex-HD. I can't get them to work properly anymore. He works in IT. Perhaps he can help me with it, if he have time.  But I will try the easy part myself (with your instructions)

We moved to a smaller house a few years ago, a bit too small and I got my computer practically in the kitchen, and even though I'm rather reasonably clean, I'm pretty sure the inside of the probably very brave computer will be filthy.  :fp:  ( I like cooking, even for my family, friends and neighbors)

A few weeks ago, my partner and I tried to remove 'white spots' in a Large curved tv, only about 5-6 years old. With the help of YT etc.  Everything went well, we even found the lamps that were loose and some fell down. But the moment we turned the tv. it was the end.  So I'm a bit hesitant to go too far. ;)  But I can certainly make a start and try it at least.  Thanks again!  :)
   
If I'm not online next week, I did something wrong   :embarrass:   ;)

Thanks Hobold and have a nice weekend.    :)
 
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 04:40:28 PM by Caleidoscope, Reason: forget a word. »

Offline hobold

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Re: Incendia and overheating.
« Reply #3 on: October 10, 2020, 05:42:39 PM »
Yeah, I thought the community here might be just the kind of target audience who actually use their computers to compute. :)

I forgot one very important cautionary note: be mindful of static electricity. Do not use dust cleaners which attract dust with electric charge - the electricity could fry the computer. Always (electrically) ground yourself before opening a computer case and working on the innards.

And vacuum cleaners are not ideal; in the worst case they can swallow a screw or some other tiny component. But vacuums are more commonly available than air blowers.

In any case, if PC maintenance is new to you, the first thing you should do is find a beginner's guide in your language, and familiarize yourself with the topic. Don't let a scary tutorial discourage you - keep looking for a better guide instead. Typical PCs are modular and are basically engineered to permit quite a bit of tinkering. Only very recently Apple and a few others started a trend to make unrepairable machines; these are still the minority.

Offline Caleidoscope

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Re: Incendia and overheating.
« Reply #4 on: October 10, 2020, 07:33:33 PM »
Thanks again, tomorrow we are give it a try. And maybe I can use a hairdryer/blower on cold air, instead of a vacuum cleaner. I thought to clean the fan as. with alcohol very carefully?    We'll see and I will let you know.  :)


Offline hobold

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Re: Incendia and overheating.
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2020, 08:57:19 PM »
And maybe I can use a hairdryer/blower on cold air, instead of a vacuum cleaner.
If hair dryer, then definitely on cold air and lowest fan setting. Blowing with hot air could theoretically de-solder something on the mainboard (hair dryers are not supposed to be remotely hot enough, but not all cheap imported brands stick to European safety regulations).

When using blowers, one of the more relevant risks is that the air flow propels one of the computer's fans. Then the electromotor in that fan turns into an electrical generator and sends electrical current into the computer.

So when using a hair dryer, try to prevent the computer's fans from spinning. With a piece of adhesive tape, say, or just a careful grip on a fan blade (but be gentle, fan blades are thin and light and occasionally (very rarely) break).


Dang, I should stop myself now. I am behaving like the computer's helicopter mom :) . In all likelihood nothing will go wrong; these kinds of accidents are all fairly rare.

A friend once mocked me that I feel more empathy with defective computers than with people. But the truth is I feel that empathy with the engineers who carefully designed and puzzled all those little parts together - and probably cringe when they see us ignorant consumers maltreating their ingenious technological toys.

Offline Caleidoscope

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Re: Incendia and overheating.
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2020, 10:32:14 PM »
When using blowers, one of the more relevant risks is that the air flow propels one of the computer's fans. Then the electromotor in that fan turns into an electrical generator and sends electrical current into the computer.
:D :D  I'm sorry, but that used to be the way I did it with the vacuum cleaner  :fp: The faster the better, I thought I cleaned it very well that way :D I put the mouth piece on the raster beside the fan.  ::)
I can imagine you hate me now   :embarrass:   Well, we can conclude that it will be better not to do that again, at least not with a madly spinning fan trying to compete with Cern. ;)  Oops. 

And believe me, I do appreciate your advice very, very much!  I'm a bit more scared now than with the first comment, every comment made me more worried. But I put comfort and hope with:
Quote
"In all likelihood nothing will go wrong; these kinds of accidents are all fairly rare."


Thanks and like I said "I will try to clean it' If it is too bad and I think I can't do it, I will bring it to a trusted repair-man or if our friend has time I pay him to do it. ( I pay him, because to many times people who know their computerstuff get 'abused' for wherever they go there is always someone with a problem and that is not fair. Little things ok, but not time consuming things like this).  The total destruction of our tv was quite enough and a little clash with reality 'we couldn't do it'   :D



Offline hobold

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Re: Incendia and overheating.
« Reply #7 on: October 11, 2020, 12:48:53 AM »
I can imagine you hate me now   :embarrass:
No, I envy your good fortune :) . After all, the machine survived those past exercises with the vacuum. Looks like it was all fine. "Obviously." :)

Offline Caleidoscope

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Re: Incendia and overheating.
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2020, 01:04:55 PM »
Luck sometimes is with the fool.  Maybe I should save this pictures for Halloween  >:D  It is indeed good fortune that this poor computer run at all. If you imagine it works every day mostly at full capacity at least 16 hours a day and day and night depending on the fractal. :-[   

Well we opened it up and were both shocked the state it was in. I cleaned it as gentle and good as possible without disassemble anything. For we were not confident enough to do so. I used cotton swabs and some different size soft brushes, to remove the dust and cleaned the fans etc with swabs with alcohol. Very careful not to touch sensitive parts.   8)  In the end it was quite a metamorphosis from our point of view. So we connected al the wires again and started it up,  nothing, so sweat on my forehead, luckily the wires weren't connected in the right way. (We are not very flexible half lying on the floor with cramp anywhere ;))   I took a picture before we removed all the wires, so we could check it later. That was a good idea. 

Anyway, it works well and he is silent again.  :cheer: :jump: :shroom:

From now on, I will pay more attention to it.  And thanks again Hobold for without you mentioning the dust etc. I would never have even looked inside.  :fp:  Nor dare to clean it at all.  :) 

So I'm glad we did it and glad it turned out well. 
Have a great Sunday.   :toast:

Offline Caleidoscope

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Re: Incendia and overheating.
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2020, 01:07:08 PM »
And this how it looks now. I think quite an improvement for two total amateurs.
The Pc is happy, for it is silent  :yes:   :thumbs:

Offline hobold

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Re: Incendia and overheating.
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2020, 02:18:17 PM »
Congratulations to your good as new computer! :D

Photographing all cables beforehand in their proper connections is an excellent idea! Thanks for mentioning it here.

The photographed level of dust is not unusually high. The only way to keep dust out of a computer is not to have the machine actually running. The sheer volume of air that gets fanned through the case (assuming it is ventilated well enough to not overheat) is so huge that even the cleanest air will deposit lots of dust particles. And merely a thin layer of dust on a heatsink or on fan blades can have surprisingly large effect with respect to cooling, because that layer might effectively act as a coating (with respect to heat transfer) or as a surface texture (with respect to aerodynamics).

Offline Caleidoscope

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Re: Incendia and overheating.
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2020, 03:54:07 PM »
I'm real glad with the result, although I must admit that looking at the picture here, I still see some dust here and there.  I'm not sure I removed it after the picture was taken.... but I will save that for the next time we clean it. ;)
Next time will be better, for you dare to do a bit more and more... and we have another one in the bedroom so that will be the next little 'project' 

I wonder how many members here clean up their pc, and how often?  Maybe this is a stimulus to try it as well. If I can do it, everybody can.  ;D  And Like Hobold also says, make a picture of all the wires and connections as a reminder on how it supposed to be. 

Have a great Sunday all of you.
Time for me to render an Incendia fractal, make it work  'for it's money'  ;)

Offline hobold

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Re: Incendia and overheating.
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2020, 05:41:55 PM »
I wonder how many members here clean up their pc, and how often?
As far as I know, that kind of computer maintenance is a relatively new phenomenon. Back in the day when new computers regularly doubled speed every two years, few people bothered to fix a three or four year old machine. Instead those computers got replaced, perhaps passed down to someone who was fine with an even older, slower PC up to that point.

The technology enthusiasts (the crowd who regularly builds their own PCs from parts instead of buying a complete PC) did bother to clean up their computers, but that happened along the way when they dismantled their old machine and upgraded parts. So they had their eye opening moments with regards to dust a few years earlier than ordinary PC users.

And then came 2010 and Moore's Law slowed down to a crawl. Suddenly old computers did not feel slow after two years or even after for years, or - OMG! - not even after six years. So dust became a problem for many more PC users.

Since 2017, when AMD began to sell the Ryzen line of processors, we are enjoying another (possibly brief) phase of exponential performance improvements. (But this time around, the number of processor cores doubled to 8, and then to 16 (on mainstream PCs), so it is clear that this development is already running into diminishing returns.)

Maybe PC maintenance will be forgotten again, and old computers get replaced instead of cleaned up. Still, paying the silicon slave a little respect every now and then will keep it cool and quiet even as it is working hard.

Offline Sabine62

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Re: Incendia and overheating.
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2020, 09:28:45 PM »
Wow, Klazien, quite the metamorphosis ;)
Probably the kitchen is not the place your computer feels most happy in... but needs must, so ;)

To be honest mine's from 2016 too, and I haven't cleaned the inside once...

Mostly because we were struck by lightning in 2018 (that was really scary, I was working behind the computer when lightning struck out of nowhere, just like that, BanGGGG!!!! )

The thunderstorm had been over by more than half an hour, so I thought we were safe again... later I heard from the insurance company that the part of 'town' where I live in suffered a lot of damage by that one flash...
I had to take the computer to an official repair shop for the insurance, and then in 2019 the power supply shut our electricity down every time I powered on the computer....  :))  :boom:

The latter probably still was some leftover damage from the lightning strike... so back to the repair shop.

And they were so sweet at that shop and cleaned out the computer for me both times :smile:

But now I read this thread, I think I am hearing one of the fans... must be paranoia  ;D
To thine own self be true

Offline Caleidoscope

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Re: Incendia and overheating.
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2020, 02:06:30 PM »
Sabine, I think That I'm boss and the computer has to feel happy wherever I put him ;)  :P 

Before we had 200 m2 to our disposal but now only about 55. (getting older so we are 'shrinking')
And I don't want a laptop anymore for they die to quickly and I like a big screen to work with. I got the nickname "HD-eater"  even a SSD gave up after 3 months. I destroyed 3 computers beyond repair (in the beginning of the pc era) and I think I've killed over 10 Harddrives, That's why now I have about 4 backups on HD and 1 on another computer (my husband, he doesn't even know :))  Luckily things have changed, and my nickname is not to the point anymore 'knock on wood a lot' But anyway that's why I still want a pc over a laptop, because I think it is still stronger and more powerful and reliable. And actually it is nice in the kitchen, for I can cook and render at the same time :D  :)) I can cook, watch tv and even look on my terrace without getting up  ::) Isn't that efficiënt?   O:-)  :yes:

Wow, that must have shocked you, Lightning so close to you. Not fun anymore. I like to watch these magnificent shows, but danger is always lurking and I certainly don't underestimate it. Especially walking in the woods,something we do very often with the doggy.  Just thinking, there are so many trees, why should it be the one I'm closest to :)  A Hail Mary will do  ::)   I think it is very nice of that shop that they cleaned it all without extra cost. How about your Harddrive? Destroyed? Or could they reanimate it again? 

Ok Sabine, I got to go for now.  If you do clean up your pc, show us the dirt.  :D   Let's see who's pc is the most dirty of them all.  That would also be a nice theme for a contest!  Don't you think?   :high5: :love:

.............................................

Quote
from hobold Yesterday at 05:41:55 PM] Since 2017, when AMD began to sell the Ryzen line of processors, we are enjoying another (possibly brief) phase of exponential performance improvements. (But this time around, the number of processor cores doubled to 8, and then to 16 (on mainstream PCs), so it is clear that this development is already running into diminishing returns.)

True, and thinking about all the improvements, I must admit that it is very seducing to buy another one, better, faster, stronger.... But I'm also older generation and if the pc doesn't die on it's own, I will stick to it till it does.  After all, it normally does what I want and expect it to do. So I beter be content ;)   (for now  :gum: )


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