(Problem) Support FragM 2.5.0-181216-winex (gerson)

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Offline Sabine62

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« on: December 20, 2018, 08:54:13 PM »
Opening a thread for problems with FragM2.5 Winex for gerson.

This is what he encounters when trying to run FragM:

Quote
I cant run Fragmentarium-2.5.0-181216-winex. I tried in 3 computers and all gives this message:

Il looks like the Fragmentarium program crashed during the last startup.
To prevent repeated crashes, you may choose to disable 'Autorun on Load'.
This option may be re-enabled through Preferences

One of than says that it was the first time I was runing and show a message about GPU..., but after give the message above.


This application failed to start because it could not find or load the Qt platform plugin "windows"
in "".
Reinstalling the application may fix this problem.

This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way.
Please contact the application's support team for more information.



Linkback: https://fractalforums.org/fragmentarium/17/support-fragm-2-5-0-181216-winex-gerson/2468/
To thine own self be true

Offline 3DickUlus

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« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2018, 01:56:14 AM »
I've just downloaded the winex.7z file from github on my Win10 box ( for the third time just to make sure ) extracted the 7z, navigated to the folder, double clicked on the Fragmentarium executable and... it runs perfectly.

8G ram
64bit AMD CPU
GTX 760 nVidia card

If I can't reproduce the issue then I can't really do anything about it ??? all I can offer is to tell you to compile from source on the machine you intend to run it on, preferably with an nVidia GFX card, if you have a different GFX card you may have to hack at the code to make it work, in that case, I would be happy to review and apply any patches that you come up with.

Q: Did you move the executable to another folder? put it back where it belongs (Fragmentarium-2.5.0-181216-winex folder) and try to run it again.
Q: Do you have a recent nVidia card? get one ;)
Q: Does your card/OS support GL 4.1 Compatibility Profile? try it on one that does.

I wish I had a magic bullit answer but that's all I've got  :-\  the program runs as distributed on all of my machines, both linux and windows.
Fragmentarium is not a toy, it is a very versatile tool that can be used to make toys ;)

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Fractals/fragmentarium

Offline mclarekin

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« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2018, 03:43:29 AM »
I just tried downloading Fragmentarium-2.5.0-181216-winex folder,  from github

and it appears to works perfectly on my nVidia GTX 960M  :)

"Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way"  maybe this is indicating that the registry TDR change is needed ???

Offline 3DickUlus

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« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2018, 04:30:14 AM »
hmmm... I think you're right @mclarekin ... here's the link (also found in the Fragmentarium->Help menu)

@gerson follow the instructions here http://blog.hvidtfeldts.net/index.php/2011/12/fragmentarium-faq/

...hope this helps :)

Offline mclarekin

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« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2018, 05:27:15 AM »
it is in the openCL section of the MandelbulberV2 manual, but this is generally not read:)

Eventually it will appear also as a  popup, (with "don't show me again" checkBox), when installing win64 binaries.

Offline 3DickUlus

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« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2018, 07:10:47 AM »
I just realized how far it has come since he wrote that blog ( more than 6 years ago ??? ), the TDR part is valid for any heavy GPU related program on windows, many thanks to Mikael Hvidtfeldt Christensen a.k.a. Syntopia for releasing Fragmentarium as opensource and providing the wealth of information in that blog. On that page there is also some mention of 64bit double vs 32bit float types.

In Fragmentarium 2.5.0 if you #include Complex.frag you can define variables as VEC2/3/4 and REAL, then in your frag when you add the line #define USE_DOUBLE before the #include Complex.frag line, REAL and VEC2/3/4 are interpreted as double and dvec2/3/4 so you can run on float only GPUs and GPUs that can handle double types. This also follows through in the GUI and any sliders defined as double types will have 14 decimal places instead of 9, these are passed into the shader as 64bit values with out any conversion or emulation of double type with 2xfloat type. Your GPU must support GLSL >= 400

I'm taking this thread as a stark reminder to myself that the  priority of good up-to-date documentation of the features in v2.5.0 needs to be bumped up on the todo list.

( thanks @mclarkin and apologies @gerson for having my head in the sand on this one >:( )

Offline Sabine62

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« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2018, 11:32:53 AM »
Have just run on

Win7 64-bit pro
32Gb
Intel-i7 6700K
nVidia GTX980-Ti

(no time yesterday evening to test  :embarrass: ) and runs like a charm...

I have sent some basic information to gerson yesterday on how to start FragM without demanding too much resources right away if the GPU is not that good, but totally forgot about the TDR!  :fp:

Yes, yes documentation. I have been thinking for a long time now that I should write an introductory tutorial for FragM, and now I think it's time to finally get it done (which means everything on to-do-list is on hold). Have written a few for Mb3D, and it's not That difficult, I am just lazy, really ;D Like no other I know what it is to struggle as newbie with this glorious software, I was quite sure FragM wanted to kill my computer in the beginning  :))  :yes: And I would never have gotten anywhere with it without the help of many kind people on here explaining to me how to save my computer's life ;)

So thank you both, 3Dickulus and mclarekin!  :thumbs:


Offline 3DickUlus

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« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2018, 07:54:39 PM »
my usual "goto" answer for people running windows is "delete it and install linux" but that's not very sympathetic or considerate, I can't stress enough to people how easy and important it is to read read read eg: the TDR thing is the first thing on the faq page and there's a link to that page in the FragM->Help menu, after the first crash FragM will run without a frag so that you can see that menu. Unfortunately I don't use windows so my cluttered brain didn't tweak on that right away (tnx again @mclarekin)

(this is more for anyone that might find this looking for info)
About Tutorials, there are 20 or so in the Examples->Tutorials menu but none are about the general operation and use of the program, they are, of course, all example code and definitely not for a new user just getting familiar with the program unless they can already code GLSL and have no problems finding their way around. This is a link http://blog.hvidtfeldts.net/ about GLSL, pathtracing and the math involved.

At this link http://www.digilanti.org/fragmentarium/index.php at the bottom of the (text part of the) page I have 3 step by step tutorials about using some of the features I've added to FragM. These may be a little dated, I did them a long time ago now, but should still be valid with the latest version of FragM.

At this link https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Fractals/fragmentarium I have attempted to document the functionality of menu items and commands but not in a "tutorial" format, more like a dictionary/cheat-sheet. I should add this one to the Help menu as well (done).
@Sabine please have a look at https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Fractals/fragmentarium#Tutorials and use the rest of that page for reference before starting any tutorial stuff, feel free to add/alter anything you find there. A lot of typing has already been done ;)


« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 08:37:23 PM by 3DickUlus, Reason: link »

Offline Sabine62

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« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2018, 11:50:09 PM »
@3Dickulus I know your really extensive wiki (hats off to you for that, lots and lots of work has gone into it  :worship: ), and I think about everything is to find there, excellent reference.

What I am thinking about re: tutorial is something else: A really Very Basic step by step guide (with picshers!  ;D ) to what to expect when first opening FragM by someone at worst like me (no clue about glsl, and only a hazy understanding of rendering, buffershaders and ray-tracers, totally bewildered when first starting this program and 'blowing up the GPU' every two seconds ;D And really too stubborn most of the time to read the manual (but that's more because FragM somehow is wonderfully intuitive once you know how to stop it from murdering your machine ;) you know it, "if everything else fails: read the manual..."  :)) ) Honestly, if it weren't for you, timemit, CJR and mclarekin being so generous with tips and support I am not sure I still would use FragM... ok, that's probably not true... too stubborn to give up, but I would still be struggling very probably  :yes: ). So I'd start with the TDR-tip but quickly move on to advise to make the render widget as small as possible (FragM first time runs with a Gigantic render widget...), limit subframes to 5 or 10, explain how to balance Fudgefactor, Maxraysteps, MaxDistance and formula iterations to get best results with shortest rendertime, that kind of stuff.

A bit like this one I wrote some time ago: https://www.deviantart.com/journal/Quick-n-Dirty-Reflections-and-Transparency-520827970

Offline 3DickUlus

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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2018, 12:16:33 AM »
I trust your intuition on this ;) you managed to go from "just installed" to "beautiful works of art" and hacking the GLSL too, if you can put that into a tutorial  loosely tracing the progression I'm sure there will be a lot of grateful new users. That way they won't have to deal with crusty old me  >:D

Offline Sabine62

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« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2018, 12:42:01 AM »
Quote
crusty old me
  :))

There's no guarantee Anyone will read it after it's finished, but IF they do, they will find an emphasized advice at the end of it to read the Real documentation (and the Help-menu   ;D )

Offline mclarekin

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« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2018, 12:03:29 AM »
Quote
There's no guarantee Anyone will read it after it's finished,

I will, it is what i still need, i can code formulas but can not make nice images yet :)

Offline gerson

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« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2018, 12:57:09 AM »
Hello, all
I am very thankful for your help.
I know that fragmentarium needs very good machines, but all that I used until now dont have a graphic card (GPU?), only onboard video card. Maybe this is the problem. I already tested in two noteboks (pentium and i3) and one desktop (i3).
In some of them Fragmentarium-2.0.0-nonv-noexr runs but some .frag files not and Fragmentarium-2.5.0-181216-winex didnt run. I didnt test to change the register file in thats computers yet
I am not a programer so I have difficulties to understand some issues, like GLSL and so on.
Now I am on vocations and I will try to read more documentation about fragmentarium.
And the notebook I have at moment is a intel pentium B960 with 4GB ram runing win 7 onboard graphic card.
I tryied to change the TDR Registry Keys. I created a new Qword (64bits) - QWORD TdrDelay = 30 (in decimals not in hexa) and a new Qword (64bits) - QWORD TdrDdiDelay = 30 (in decimals too).
Fragmentarium-2.0.0-nonv-noexr crash and didnt run and Fragmentarium-2.5.0-181216-winex open just a blank page.
See images.
I will keep track fragmentarium's topics and news and try to learn more, so guys dont worry about it.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 01:43:56 AM by gerson »

Offline 3DickUlus

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« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2018, 01:28:17 AM »
@gerson it's probably not a good idea to run this program on an older notebook, if it does run it will run very hot and that may cause damage, if the air filters and fans and heatsinks are all in like new condition with no dust at all it might be ok  :-\

Offline gerson

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« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2018, 01:47:52 AM »
Ok. It is a great program. I will keep tracking and waiting until I get buy a good machine. Thanks.


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