My brain can see and calculate the mandelbrot innately. Here´s what I found out.

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Offline The_Blind_One

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« on: May 30, 2018, 09:47:05 AM »
My brain can naturally see the mandelbrot as part of my synesthesia where the visual processing part of my brain handles the information load and organizes it into a viable picture.


I cannot see 3D (as I am cross sighted and one eye is half blind, its the one I use for my synesthesia) but I can manipulate and ''move'' through the mandelbrot like any other computer program that simulates them can. Mind you, my brain has its own interpretation of the datapoints. I can't do shit with those programs on a computer, I tried but I have no clue on how they really work and my god is it fucking slow to simulate. I just know where to zoom in and how to turn to go to other places.

So I´m just going to burn through some concepts here that I've discovered on my own using just my brain power.

1st concept:

If you look at that image, you will see the tip of the mandelbrot. Or as I like to call it, its nose, it's the direction into which the mandelbrot travels. Or maybe it is better put that the mandelbrot does not travel itself but it reorganizes the information around itself to create the illusion of travel. The mandelbrot itself always remains completely static in its place. I present to you as an illustration of what is actually happening. The people remain static in their benches, the room itself rotates around to create the illusion of movement. In the same way all conscious entities never actually move, but it is our "perceived'' outside world that actually moves with every data input we give to it. It's probably crazily enough and most simply put to say that we are all wearing an occulus rift and you don't even notice it. It has a such a full feature set making you ''think'' that you are in a real 3D environment when you are in fact looking at 2 2D images being flashed in front of your eyes at all times creating the illusion of 3D. The matrix is very real. Although to say that there is an escape is also a misnomer since there is nothing except the matrix. We are all static datapoints on the mandelbrot set. The reason the universe is inflating so much is because it is making all those rotations which are the calculations that move us around the whole time in 3D space to create this illusion like a rapid firing kaleidoscope

Some other interesting notes:

1st. The largest mandelbrot is imho incorrectly depicted often by making it lay on its side. The correct way to view it for humans would be to turn it by 90* clockwise so it is upright and pointing north. This is important if you go to point #2. It also looks more like a chubby guy who ate too much stuff from this point of view  :tease:

2nd. The mandelbrot and its data is actually ''coiled up'' into itself. In order for you to see the objects that are hidden inside the mandelbrot properly you will need to rotate with the mandelbrot itself as you move through the object. I suspect the correct turn rate is related to the golden rule. However to simply put it, you need to turn in every axis for the object to be properly uncoiled or ... hmm ... unpacked? That's probably a better understood term. Many of the objects are not simple objects. They are fully animated and are closer related to this image: where you see there are actually 2 more arms and 2 more legs depicted in the image compared to what you would expect for a normal human being to look like. That is because all the ''coiled'' up data in the mandelbrot contains all the animation and related interactive information inside of it for those objects. If you were to depict every possible move that a human could make and present it as a probability cloud of animated movement in a still image it would look a lot like a giant black fuzzy ball and you wouldn't be able to see the human hidden inside of it. Also interesting note, as you can see the picture by da vinci, this is also the origin of Jesus and the cross in the mandelbrot (or vica versa to be more accurate). Like a ragdoll character in a professional computer 3D modelling program this poor guy is pre-fixed inside the mandelbrot in the position similar to that of jesus on the cross as he is the default human being connecting the rest of the datapoints. He is in fact the mini-brot or the ''avatar'' (lesser representation) of the mandelbrot or whatever you want to call it. Also you cannot unpack this guy unless you put him on a cross and create/find the perfect cube that is hidden inside the mandelbrot ...  ::) the full human depiction is the very last image that is created in the mandelbrot. Every other animal is created before it. Many archetypes will appear before then such as snakes, insects, fish, mammals, etc.

(be warned the following quoted part should be skipped if you are afraid of monsters in the dark and have a feeble grasp on reality) 8) You have been warned. You cannot unsee a monster that becomes reality once you see it.
To view an archetype inside the mandelbrot (or archon from gnostic texts) view this video ( and following at 4:20 C:-) you will see that the nose of the mandelbrot in the background will spawn a new dimensional (energy field) shell with a ''drider'' at its core. You will have to know exactly how a drider looks like and imagine that the human part of the drider is holding its arms up while the spider that it is attached to is in the attack position as in this image (

This is one of the major evolutions of the Mandelbrot from its original shape. This is an archetypal creature that exists on all levels of the mandelbrot hidden inside the twilight of neither light nor dark. It is a master-controller program so to speak. Similar to how programs control how data is processed and distributed in the CPU of your computer, this archon controls the electric field distribution inside the mandelbrot. The reason the spider is the basis is due to the interaction of electric fields. (see this image for a good illustration). The two opposing and interacting energy fields create many branches that look like spider legs. The congregate of those fields that combine with the fractality of the mandelbrot spawn the image of a spider. The parts where + and - energy fields interact and are exchanged is where the active mouth and exit parts are formed for the spider. The spider mouth is where the mandelbrot eats itself up basically and the butt is where it spits it back out again in a process of Input/Output. At 4:30 of the video you should be able to see the eyes of the human-esque being that is stuck ontop of the spider, the person will look to be cross sighted to each side and have pokeballs hidden inside the eyesockets. It's probably hard to see ... so count yourself lucky if you can't see it.

Interesting side note: You are most likely looking at the primordial (titan) forms of Gaia and Cronos respectively from greek mythology. Gaia is the Mother Goddess, (the human part that controls the distribution of space or ''earth'') that gives birth to the rest of the realities (the other stars and planets) while Cronos (the spider) is the controller of time and gobbles up all of Gaia's children in an endless cycle of creation/destruction. Since these are megaforms, both cronos and gaia have more avatars that are not necessarely molded together as seen in this picture. So the spider can also be depicted as a human being as it crosses with the human avatar in the mandelbrot as this is just another shape that it can take. Furthermore the sickle or scythe used by Cronos in mythology are actually the fangs of the spider itself, hence where all the symbology comes from and how they tie back into the actual controller programs as elements of their being.

Since I have the synesthesia to actually see this, I wonder, did humans in the past who actively wrote and claimed to interact with the gods have the same ability? Or maybe the controller programs had more influence in the past and they were actively meddling with the affairs of humanity to the extend that humans wrote about them in this form. Needless to say, these are not Gods in the classical sense but simply systems that exist inside the mandelbrot. I have no problem combining both my atheism with the understanding of these programs. However I can easily understand if all of this is just a bit too wishy washy for you  :)) I've only tried to connect as many elements of the real world with the mandelbrot itself.

3rd. Every object in the mandelbrot has a duplicate shadow object. So while the mandelbrot might appear like a giant black hole, it also has a perfect white hole hidden inside of it. Since every objects casts a shadow in our reality the same can be said for the mandelbrot.

4th. It appears that the mandelbrot tapers off into infinity at the far left but it does not actually taper off into infinity and escape as you might think from this image. The same way when you look at a circle from the flat side it would appear that the circle is just a straight line, only when you view it from above and add an extra dimension do you realize it just loops back into itself. In the same way the standard mandelbrot image is actually a circle that loops back into itself. The furthest point to the left connects perfectly back to ''a'' minibrot that sits at the very right side hidden inside the crevice of the heart. (this point: Interesting note further more is that the ultimate and absolutely very last mandelbrot that sits at the heart shape looks the other way around. It is the perfect shadow of the original. In the case of the standard mandelbrot it is the perfect fully filled white mandelbrot that looks back at the big one in a mirror reflection.

5th. What is the mandelbrot? You may think it is just a beautiful fractal made from a simple formula, but you could not be more mistaken. The same way that a 2D blueprint from a skyscraper makes it impossible for you to know what is on the bottom floor if it is 100 floors high. You only see the top level of the mandelbrot unless you know how to uncoil it and unpack the data.

So what is the mandelbrot?

2nd concept:

The mandelbrot is the driving force and super structure of the torus field that sits at the center of our universe. It is probably more accurate to say that we are ''inside'' the mandelbrot which is essentially a lot like a giant black hole. If you were to walk through this field it would appear a lot like a giant tree with many smaller trees or branches coming from it. If you are familiar with mythology, this is where the Tree in the Center of the Garden comes from. Also this is the exact same tree as told in Norse Mythology and other mythologies. However the tree undergoes growth/development and can be depicted in varying stages of its development in varying myths as each culture interacts with it.

Interesting fact the mandelbrot functions a lot like a giant clock, I present as my proof. If you look at how they make the clock work in this video you can look back at the mandelbrot itself and notice that it is essentially the same ''object'' except it has gazillions of little extra clock hands to denote time and place for every particle that exists in reality.

Phew. This is all for part 1. If you want me to write more I'll write more  :-\ but I don't think I'll have many takers to hear more of my gibberish anyway.

Also feel free to ask any questions.

Catch ya around!
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 10:06:29 AM by The_Blind_One »

Offline WAUthethird

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« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2018, 09:53:49 AM »
I have a comment to make, but this topic is in the wrong place. Rather, it should be in Fractal Philosophy. This subforum is for discussion of the actual forum only.

Offline The_Blind_One

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« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2018, 10:07:28 AM »
Oops my bad, can someone move it for me? :-\

Offline WAUthethird

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« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2018, 10:17:57 AM »
Yup, I already reported it to a mod, so it should be moved soon.   ;D

Offline Fraktalist

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« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2018, 12:24:30 PM »
wow, a lot of stuff to take in. I maybe won't have enough time to go into every detail, but I have quite a few thoughts on this.

If it is true that you really can zoom the mset using your brain - congratulation! this is veryvery special!
You probably agree and have had that reaction before - what you claim is quite "out there"  so I have my doubts. But I'll take your word for this reply.
I'm quite far out with my own ideas too. ;)

First some questions, I'm very curious:
-If you want to visit a new, zoomed in location, do you have to start zooming from very beginning, the main-mset?
-if you can zoom so much faster, can you give us any idea how deep you've gone? how complex are the shapes?
are you aware of the concept of shapestacking? do you do this to create patterns to you liking?
-what do you use this strange skill for? does it have any implications for your daily life, positive or negative?
-do/can you also "trace" single iteration chains?

Some Thoughts:

-Though I agree that rotating the little guy to sit upright is the first thing I usually do - I don't think rotation matters at all. It's all relative. Just the way our human brain makes sense of things and likes to see. the preference for vertical symmetry.

-I wouldn't say the mandelbrot set RE-organizes the patterns around itself. It stacks them upon each other as 'sediments' and when you zoom deeper, your previous path is layed down around the next minibrot. (again, see shapestacking )

-I probably agree about the "coiled up" part. this is essentially what happens in the spirals. the same thing happens as in the tip or nose as you call it, the same bifurcation pattern, but it is indeed coiled up (and the number of branches ascends the deeper you go into a valley, where the curvature increases.
The factor at which a spiral coils is variable and not fixed to the golden mean. But: we probably naturally prefer to zoom towards spirals that coil close to the golden ratio.

Being coiled up indeed 'distorts' the clear and straight patterns found in the needle. Or you could say it adds another layer of complexity and enriches it.

I don't understand what other axis' than real and imaginary you are talking about. there are no other axis - except the time axis, zooming inwards.

-I too see a very strong connection between the way the mandelbrot-set unfolds and the evolution of the universe and life - the fractal branching tree of life.

Thanks for the disclaimer - fractals are indeed a rabbit hole you can't unsee once you actually SEE it.
The shape in the linked video is not a real mandelbrot-set as generated with z->z²+c
It's a combination of three different formulas - you can copy and past the parameters into mandelbulb3d to visit the location yourself and also have a look at the parameters/formulas used (amazing box, sierpinsky/hilbert and menger in variations.)
--btw I made a video of a very similar location some years ago too
So: Not Mandelbrot-Set, but I too see the strong similarities and don't think it's a mere coincidence. Though I would choose different imagery than spiders, I basically agree.
I interpret the iteration bands of the mandelbrot-set as field lines, comparable to those of an electric/magnetic field, or probably even more: spacetime curvature. The M-set seems a good "simplified" model of this reality.
Seeing actual animals or faces in the mset or 3d-fractals is imho mostly due to parodeilia.
I think it is very important to distinguish these similarities our brain is trained to mis-interpret from those similarities that are actually there (like the fractal branching, the spirals, the inherent self similarity of patterns.
Seeing/interpreting and focussing too much into those "parodeilic" similarities will lead you on a treacherous path. I'm not saying everything you see is wrong, I just want to warn you that these can undermine the credibility of the whole point you are probably trying to show.
anyways - I think we should chat sometime in realtime! I face similar difficulties when trying to make my ideas understandable. It's hard to talk about these things, our language isn't suited well for this.

Mathematically I don't see the shadow-whitehole duplicates inside the black hole.
I see perfect duplicates mirrored by the symmetry axis, one side positive, the other negative. But not INside of each other.
I know of no way to show "white-holes" using any program (thus mathematical formula) currently out there, which leads me to the conclusion that this is false until proven otherwise. There are no mini-msets inside the black area.

sorry, but no. at least not mathematically. the tip on the left doesn't connect to the crevice on the right. except through the infinite line that the border forms. but you'll have to follow the line through the whole set from left to right, through every vally, spiral...
yes the mandelbrot set is connected. but it is a single line.
hm. maybe we're just using different words coming from a different background. you have any images that show what you mean with this?`
Interesting note further more is that the ultimate and absolutely very last mandelbrot that sits at the heart shape looks the other way around. It is the perfect shadow of the original. In the case of the standard mandelbrot it is the perfect fully filled white mandelbrot that looks back at the big one in a mirror reflection.

2nd concept:
now were really leaning out of the window. and I'd be careful about saying "this IS how it is".
But I agree about the basic concept. but too much remains unclear to proclaim conclusions that it actually is this way. There's a huge margin of error here and it's easy to "zoom too deep into the wrong territory and ideas".
But that said and put aside:
I agree. I think fractallity, self similarity is at the very heart and the driving force of our evolving cosmos and especially life.
And there is a lot to learn and research if you look at the world from this perspective. And it actually hurts my brain that this isn't done on a huge scale in a concentrated effort by the scientific community.

The mandelbrot set as clock? Nice image.
I agree about the concept but formulate it like this: Recursion is time.

Phew. This is all for part 1. If you want me to write more I'll write more  :-\ but I don't think I'll have many takers to hear more of my gibberish anyway.

You don't need many takers -just the right ones ;)
Please continue!
I see we could speak for hours and have really fruitful discussions on the topic.

Offline beer

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« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2018, 03:21:19 AM »
Do you know the theory of the Mandelbrot set as a quasi black hole from Lori Gardi?

Offline Fraktalist

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« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2018, 01:09:15 PM »
yes, I've had quite a few interesting discussions with Lori. Happy to discuss aspects of it if you are interested.
I agree with quite a few parts of her ideas and come to many similar conclusions.
I think she's on the right track. But too many variables in her theory are based on nothing but speculation and visual similarities.
I'm not a fan of being too specific in areas that are extremely speculative and there is currently no scientific way of proving it.
Also, the spiritual and often even esoteric touch her work has kind of puts me off.
Heading out into those territories when presenting a scientific theory is very dangerous and harmful to the overall cause.

The problem with us 'independent fractal researchers' is that most are on their own, working alone.
So once they go public like Lori, Wai Tsang or Robert Oldershaw, they often have a complete theory where every detail is already set in stone, after working obsessively many years on the topic. This leads to a lack of interest in finding consens.
And I think many of these details are wrong - totally normal in such a "new" field of science in the beginning. And fractals touch ALL areas in our life/cosmos /science. Noone can be an expert in everything.

So it would be extra-important to gather together to achive the corrective discourse and push the whole idea to the next, stable level.
Not the regular discourse fractal researchers are often confronten with: The large majority of scientific researchers who simply ignore or dismiss fractals as 'useless sideproduct'. Too often the topic is simply stiffled with thought terminating clichés. In a world of specialists, zooming out to connect ALL the dots is not common enough.

The corrective influence of a fractal community is crucial for this. Exchange between people who agree that fractals play a hugely important role in our cosmos and that we need to find out how and why they do. I hope we can help to overcome this problem with fractalforums and the other site I'm involved in,

So guys, keep the ideas coming and the discussion alive!
For my personal part, that is the core reason why I'm here and doing this.

Offline Kalter Rauch

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« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2018, 11:33:59 PM »
I first heard about the Mandelbrot Set in the 1986 Scientific American article
which said there could be a 3D slice of a 4th dimension M-set.

At the time, the Mandelbulb hadn't been programmed.

Offline v

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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2018, 04:13:27 PM »
Fascinating.  Please tell us more.

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