What is the length of a section of the Mandelbrot set boundary?

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0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. gerrit Re: What is the length of a section of the Mandelbrot set boundary?

« Reply #30 on: December 01, 2018, 10:20:58 PM »
The higher the power $$p$$, the longer the boundary up to $$p=10$$ (can't do higher with KF).
Boundary has (normal) length $$\infty$$ for all $$p$$ but lenght $$2\pi$$ for $$p=\infty$$; you can't reorder these limits.

I wonder what $$\lim_{p\rightarrow \infty} \lim_{\epsilon \rightarrow 0} boundaryLengh(p)/boundaryLengh(2)$$ (with $$\epsilon$$ pixel size) is. gerrit Re: What is the length of a section of the Mandelbrot set boundary?

« Reply #31 on: December 01, 2018, 10:49:56 PM »
See https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0375960189904155.
I thought it was proven that fractal dimension of boundary of p=2 M-set was 2, but above abstract implies it's only a conjecture? Does anyone here know?

Wait, I found it, it was proven 2 years later: https://arxiv.org/abs/math/9201282. This proof is for power 2 only, what about higher powers?
I've just assumed boundary fractal dimension is the same for all powers p, but am not sure if that has been proven.

The p=2/p=3 ratio I plotted could go to 0 in principle. Maybe someone can write more efficient code to go to higher resolution to figure out if it converges to a nonzero number (.6 it seems).
That may however be futile if it goes to 0 as 1/log(log(.)) or something nasty like that. gerrit Re: What is the length of a section of the Mandelbrot set boundary?

« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2018, 07:06:33 AM »
Boundary of all $$z \leftarrow z^p+c$$ fractals (p = 2,3,...) has been proven to be 2:
https://mathoverflow.net/questions/37230/hausdorff-dimension-of-higher-powers-of-the-mandebrot-set.

Just as normal lengths are just length ratios between whatever and that standard meter thing in Paris, all dim 2 fractal boundaries could be expressed in units of some "standard" dim 2 fractal curve. Not sure which that would be. TGlad

• •     • Posts: 62 Re: What is the length of a section of the Mandelbrot set boundary?

« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2018, 12:55:05 PM »
The following snippet from the Wikipedia page on Hausdorff measure is related to the puzzle we're looking at.

It seems to be repeating the idea that you need to account for the growth function of length with scale, in order to stop certain measures ending up 0 or infinity (like the binary tree in my sister post). fractower Re: What is the length of a section of the Mandelbrot set boundary?

« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2018, 09:56:46 PM »
I wrote a edge walker to measure iteration scaling factors for the Mandelbrot boundary. The is similar to what Gerrit has been doing except I am looking at relative small iteration counts and a resolution that captures the entire boundary.

For any finite iteration count the iterative calculation can be re-written as a polynomial Pn(C). The edge walker extracts the iso-contour:
Pn(C) - Escape_limit = 0
Then measures the length. The order of Pn(C) goes 2^n. In a Taylor expansion of a real function every additional inflection point requires an increment to the order of the real poly. I suspect the boundary follows some similar order to complexity relationship. Unfortunately I do not know how to express this formally.

Since I don't  have an analytical method to relate resolution to error I used a cannery method. The calculations are done at 1.0e-7 and 1.0e-8 resolution. When the two results start to diverge I know that he 1.0e-7 is missing detail and the 1.0e-8 will start failing in 3 or 4 iterations.

The scaling graph shows an asymptotic approach to 1.165. This is at the edge of the 100M resolution so I need to do some longer runs to verify this.

The more interesting result is looking at the ratio of the main body vs the rest of the boundary. Here we see a steady increase of the ratio per iteration. If this continues then any simple measure at finite resolution will not be a good estimate in the limit.

I am attaching the program code. The build command is
gcc  -O1 Brot_walker.cpp -o Brot_walker -lm

Example command lines:
>Brot_walker -e 10 -l 10 -n 17 -r 1000000 -p -.75 .000001 -p -2 0 -p -.75 -.000001
>Brot_walker -h

Code: [Select]
// Non-attribution public domain. No rights reserved.// Segfaults and floating point errors are not my fault.#include <stdio.h>#include <stdlib.h>#include <string.h>#include <math.h>#include <unistd.h>#include <fenv.h>//#include <xmmintrin.h>// BUILD:// gcc -O1 Brot_walker.cpp -o Brot_walker -lm// icc -O1 Brot_walker.cpp -o Brot_walker -lmint brot(double r, double i, double Escape, int n){  int a;  double zr = r;  double zi = i;  if(n==-1){  // if n==-1 do sphere for testing    if(((r*r+i*i)-(Escape*Escape))>0){      return(0);    }else{      return(1);    }  }else if(n==-2){ // if n==-2 do square for testing    if((fabs(r)>Escape) ||(fabs(i)>Escape)){      return(0);    }else{      return(1);    }  }else if(n==-3){ // if n==-3 do shamrock for testing    //if((fabs(r)>Escape) ||(fabs(i)>Escape)){    if(((fabs(r)+.1)*(fabs(i)+.1))>Escape){      return(0);    }else{      return(1);    }  }else {    for(a=0;a<n;a++){      double tmp_zr;      tmp_zr = zr*zr - zi*zi +r;      zi = 2*zr*zi + i;      zr = tmp_zr;      if(((zr*zr+zi*zi)-(Escape*Escape))>0){        return(0);      }    }    return(1);  }}int help(){const char * h ="//Edge walker (counter clockwise).\n""// The edge walker works on a grid with units d=1/resolution (-r).\n""// The walker state consists of a position and a direction.\n""//     position: r=pos_r*d and i=pos_i*d.\n""//     direction: dir { 0=( 0, i), 1=(-1, 0), 2=( 0, -i), 3=( 0, 1)\n" "//\n""// The walker is assumed to be standing on a point in the set with\n""// the right ( 0, 1) being !set. The walker is pointed in the ( 0, i)\n""// direction it its frame of reference.\n""//\n""// In the next walker state (step) is found by finding the first NN cell\n""// in the set starting with the upper right ( 1, 1) and scanning counter\n" "// clockwise. The cell in the CC direction is !set.\n""//\n""// The edge walker takes a path of unit steps in the real or imaginary direction\n""// or diagonal steps at 45. Just counting step distance is not a good measure\n""// since this has lots of wiggles. For this reason distance needs to be measured\n""// for several steps to avoid measuring tracking zig zags.\n""//\n""// Usage:\n""//  Brot_walker -e Escape_d -l meter_steps -n iters -r unit_res [-p im re]\n""//\n""// -n number of iterations of Z^2+C. \n""// -e should be small for small iteration count.\n""// -l should be in the 10 range to minimize the zig zag error.\n""// -r resolution can be in the 10M to 100M range. Time is linear in res.\n""// -p point to start measuring from in the CC direction back to point of origin.\n""// -p You can specify 1024 points if you want.\n""//    The starting pixel for point measurement is the closes walker step to point.\n"; printf("%s",h); exit(1);}int main(int argc, char *argv[]){  //Define order to look for next inside edge point.  int look_r =  { 1, 0,-1,-1,-1, 0, 1, 1};  int look_i =  { 1, 1, 1, 0,-1,-1,-1, 0};  int next_dir ={ 3, 0, 0, 1, 1, 2, 2, 3};  double total_l=0;  // Keep the last 1024 points for long step measurements (-l).  int trail_r;  int trail_i;  int points=0;   // Number of points being measured.  double pDD; // Closest distance to boundary.  double pr; // Real part of point   double pi; // imaginary part of point.  double pl; // Measured distance to starting point.    int pos_r, pos_i;  int stop_r, stop_i;  double r,i;  long step;  int dir;  int opt;  double Escape,d;  int Length;  int resolution;  int n;  int a;  for(a=1;a<argc;a++) {    if( strcmp("-e",argv[a]) == 0) {      a++;      Escape = (double) atof(argv[a]);     }else if( strcmp("-n",argv[a]) == 0) {      a++;      n = atoi(argv[a]);     }else if( strcmp("-l",argv[a]) == 0) {      a++;      Length = atoi(argv[a]);       //}else if( strcmp("-ftz",argv[a]) == 0) {      //_MM_SET_FLUSH_ZERO_MODE(_MM_FLUSH_ZERO_ON);    }else if( strcmp("-p",argv[a]) == 0) {      a++;      pr[points] = (double)atof(argv[a]);       a++;      pi[points] = (double)atof(argv[a]);      pDD[points] = 1000000000; // big number      pl[points] = 0;       points++;    }else if( strcmp("-r",argv[a]) == 0) {      a++;      resolution = atoi(argv[a]);       d= 1.0/resolution;    } else {      help();    }      }  printf("// Brot_walker -n %d -e %g -r %d -l %d ", n, Escape, resolution, Length);  for(a=0;a<points;a++){    printf("-p %g %g ",pr[a],pi[a]);  }  printf("\n");    // Start at (0,0) and move in the +r direction until finding an edge.  pos_r=0;  pos_i=0;  while(brot((pos_r+1)*d, pos_i*d,Escape, n)){    pos_r++;  }  printf("start pos %d %d\n",pos_r, pos_i);  dir = 0; // Positive i direction.  // (r,i) is inside the edge and (r+d,i) is outside  trail_r = pos_r;  trail_i = pos_i;  stop_r=pos_r;  stop_i=pos_i;  step = 0;  while((pos_r!=stop_r)||(pos_i!=stop_i)||(step<2*Length)){    step ++;    int look_dir = (2*dir)&7;    r = (pos_r+look_r[look_dir])*d;    i = (pos_i+look_i[look_dir])*d;        while(brot(r, i, Escape, n)==0){      look_dir = (look_dir +1)&7;      r = (pos_r+look_r[look_dir])*d;      i = (pos_i+look_i[look_dir])*d;    }    //printf("here %d %d %d %g %g\n",pos_r, pos_i,dir ,r,i);    pos_r += look_r[look_dir];    pos_i += look_i[look_dir];    dir = next_dir[look_dir];        trail_r[step&1023]=pos_r;    trail_i[step&1023]=pos_i;        if(step == Length){      stop_r=pos_r;      stop_i=pos_i;    }    if(step>=Length){      r = d*(pos_r - trail_r[(step-Length)&1023]);      i = d*(pos_i - trail_i[(step-Length)&1023]);      double tmp_l = sqrt(r*r+i*i)/Length;      total_l = total_l + tmp_l;      for(a=0;a<points;a++){ pl[a] = pl[a] + tmp_l; double DD = (pr[a]-d*pos_r)*(pr[a]-d*pos_r)+(pi[a]-d*pos_i)*(pi[a]-d*pos_i); if(DD < pDD[a]){   pDD[a]=DD;   pl[a]=0; }      }    }  }  printf("total lenght %g steps %ld\n",total_l,step);  for(a=0;a<points;a++){    printf("point (%g,%g) lenght to start %g point to edge %g\n",pr[a],pi[a],pl[a],sqrt(pDD[a]));  }  return(0);}

« Last Edit: December 02, 2018, 10:20:32 PM by fractower » gerrit Re: What is the length of a section of the Mandelbrot set boundary?

« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2018, 11:41:21 PM »
Assuming by "main body" you mean everything to the right of the Feigenbaum point on the real axis (around -1.4), I get the following result for length ratio as function of resolution.

Looks like it's still increasing but as any segment of the boundary has H-dim 2 I think it most likely converges to some finite number. Of course box counting dimension is not the same as Hausdorff dimension, so maybe not.

Added: For the split at vertical line through -0.75 I get second plot.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2018, 04:54:54 AM by gerrit » fractower Re: What is the length of a section of the Mandelbrot set boundary?

« Reply #36 on: December 03, 2018, 05:31:34 AM »
Measuring to -1.4 is a better point to separate  bulb behavior from antenna behavior. Using -1.4 the iteration scaling factor for the bulbs is 1.16 while the antenna is 1.12. If this continues to scale with iteration then the antenna's contribution to the overall boundary length will become insignificant. Our approaches are different but they both show a diminishing antenna contribution.

Any idea how to sneak up on the infinite limit here? gerrit Re: What is the length of a section of the Mandelbrot set boundary?

« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2018, 07:52:16 AM »
Measuring to -1.4 is a better point to separate  bulb behavior from antenna behavior. Using -1.4 the iteration scaling factor for the bulbs is 1.16 while the antenna is 1.12. If this continues to scale with iteration then the antenna's contribution to the overall boundary length will become insignificant. Our approaches are different but they both show a diminishing antenna contribution.

Any idea how to sneak up on the infinite limit here?
What do you mean by "scaling factor"? Every segment should scale as lenght ~ $$1/\epsilon^2$$ with $$\epsilon$$ pixel size.
I think we're just very far from convergence. fractower Re: What is the length of a section of the Mandelbrot set boundary?

« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2018, 06:36:36 PM »
Quote
What do you mean by "scaling factor"? Every segment should scale as lenght ~ 1/ϵ2 with ϵ pixel size.
I think we're just very far from convergence.

I am scaling by iteration while you are scaling by resolution so our convergence criteria are probably different. I am still trying to figure out a good criteria for iteration scaling.

I assume the ~ 1/ϵ2 scaling is based on finding a 2D boundary of finite width> ϵ. I have not looked at the 2D proof, but it seems likely it is defined for some infinitesimal set. Similar Topics List of numbers with fixed digit length in the Mandelbrot set?

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