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Author Topic: (Problem) Links to images seem broken  (Read 586 times)

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Offline youhn

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(Problem) Links to images seem broken
« on: June 17, 2021, 09:35:11 PM »
 :-/

The links in post https://fractalforums.org/fractal-mathematics-and-new-theories/28/mandelbrot-2d-projection-using-geometric-algebra/3987/msg26296#msg26296 seem to be broken. When re-editing the post, I noticed the links have been changed:

Code: [Select]
[img width=720 height=540]https://i.BAD_IMAGE_LINK.com/7WgaAie.png[/img]

Did I use some bad website? What were the original links that have been replaced?

Is it just me, or is this a forum wide feature or perhaps bug?

Linkback: https://fractalforums.org/index.php?topic=4280.0

Offline pauldelbrot

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Re: Links to images seem broken
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2021, 10:03:21 PM »
:-/

The links in post https://fractalforums.org/fractal-mathematics-and-new-theories/28/mandelbrot-2d-projection-using-geometric-algebra/3987/msg26296#msg26296 seem to be broken. When re-editing the post, I noticed the links have been changed:

Code: [Select]
[img width=720 height=540]https://i.BAD_IMAGE_LINK.com/7WgaAie.png[/img]

Did I use some bad website? What were the original links that have been replaced?

Is it just me, or is this a forum wide feature or perhaps bug?

Sure looks like buggy behavior to me, or perhaps a vandal on the loose.

At a guess I'd say the correct url domain is i.imgur.com, in this particular instance.

Offline pauldelbrot

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Re: Links to images seem broken
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2021, 10:04:38 PM »
What the hell? That isn't what I wrote. Someone is altering my own posts without my permission!

Offline youhn

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Offline 3DickUlus

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Re: Links to images seem broken
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2021, 02:39:53 AM »
my humblest apologies, I was testing word censoring to see if it affected urls, it does, and I got distracted  :fp: (married life) and neglected to remove them.

it has been reverted so the images will show if they exist... which is why I was testing this.

now that I seem to have everyone's attention  :educated:  there is some reasoning to doing this...

1) sites like tumblr pinimg picmix imgur lf127 etc. can end up as dead links if the image doesn't get enough traffic or if there is a time limit in their user agreements (which nobody reads)

2) we have no control over off-site images, they could be swapped out for absolutely anything without us knowing, potentially leaving us in a position of distributing (or helping to distribute) material that we do not approve of or agree with, which could lead to legal ramifications.

3) we provide the ability to attach images in posts so there is no need for off-site links to images, attachments will follow the forum if we have to change providers and will never leave dead links.

4) not to mention copyright issues


the registration agreement and guidelines may be updated in the near future to reflect this should it become policy. Currently our registration agreement does place all responsibility on the user regarding posted material but that doesn't address the dead links issue or other things I haven't thought of yet.

the preferred method for sharing images here is to attach them to your posts or upload them to your gallery and use the links provided there in your posts
@youhn I do agree that this should be in the guidelines too... it's a process of evolution and it hasn't made it there yet.


input on this subject is welcome and will help shape the forum.

Offline gerrit

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Re: Links to images seem broken
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2021, 04:28:00 AM »
input on this subject is welcome and will help shape the forum.
Requiring data to be posted as attachment or in gallery when possible is reasonable.
When not possible (mainly video or some occasional hi-res stuff) an external link is needed.


Offline pauldelbrot

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Re: Links to images seem broken
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2021, 04:01:57 PM »
Copyright is an excellent reason to link to off-site images, in some cases; to wit, where you want to refer to an image here for any reason, but actually uploading a copy here would be copyright infringement. Referencing a fractal posted by a non-member off-site, for example.

Furthermore, there is definitely not a reason to also forbid discussion of any particular image host, let alone to enforce such a rule with automation (prior restraint) rather than after-the-fact action (e.g., removing material in response to valid complaints).

Also, this whole thing strikes me as cack-handed and infantilizing. Treating the user base as children rather than adults capable of making our own rational and independent decisions.

Offline youhn

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Re: Links to images seem broken
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2021, 05:18:44 PM »
I have no problem to be used as test subject, though I expect to be informed about this.

I have problems with my posts being altered without my knowledge, which I consider as very bad practice. I would very much prefer a stable site with predictable behaviour. Do not look for problems to fix or stuff to improve, is there is no need for that. And please do not go looking for reasons. I wish we had more freedom, could use direct links (both normal and images).

Some people tend to ruin everything for others. Those people should be changes or removed, not misused as a reason to change policy or rulesets. Policy and rules should preferable written in (hard and expensive) stone, or any other method that makes it cumbersome to change.

Let members (sounds better as users, or leeches) focus freely and unobstructed to the content of the forum. The forum itself should almost be invisible when things go smooth. Like you don't feel any air in "room temperature", or you feel one with a (bike/plane/boat/car) when navigating. Tools should never get in the way of their goal, it's not about the tools but about doing stuff. Fractals should be fun, educational and entertaining, not forced into some synthetic shape.

I do not know the English names, but there are types of organisations were members are included in the decision process. Not on all daily details, but for the more important stuff. In practice this results in most people just agreeing with all proposals (that have first been created by the board or a subgroup), but it does give the members the feeling of inclusion. They feel more part of the group, because they have "voted" on all major policy changes.

Communication must be as simple and effective as possible, which kind of conflict with getting everyone engaged. Though the real reason is not getting everyone into the decision process, the goal is binding. Sound of music and/or tone of voice is a huge factor in this. So on that point I agree with Paul. Give of a little bit of human respect, or at least the benefit of doubt. Therefore I regret that I feel driven to take part in this discussion, which is not about fractals.

*testing*
Can I say imgur ?
Can I say imgur.com ?
Perhaps https://imgur.com/ with httpS for Secure?

Has this (or the previous) site ever been attacked in a legal way because of related issues?

Just to add, I really like the fact that we have little spam and fraud on this forum!

Offline 3DickUlus

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Re: Links to images seem broken
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2021, 07:34:58 AM »
No texts were altered, they remain, as you typed them, in the database.

quote from imgur TOS...
Quote
Also, don't use Imgur to host image libraries you link to from elsewhere, content for your website, advertising, avatars, or anything else that turns us into your content delivery network. If you do – and we will be the judge – or if you do anything illegal, in addition to any other legal rights we may have, we will ban you along with the site you're hotlinking from, delete all your images, report you to the authorities if necessary, and prevent you from viewing any images hosted on Imgur.com. We mean it.

hopefully images hosted on imgur and used here fall under the "fair use" terms.

...reword in the context of a Guideline?
Requiring data to be posted as attachment or in gallery when possible is reasonable.
When not possible (mainly video or some occasional hi-res stuff) an external link is needed.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2021, 08:35:44 AM by 3DickUlus »

Offline youhn

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Re: Links to images seem broken
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2021, 08:44:11 AM »
From https://help.imgur.com/hc/en-us/articles/115003264766-FAQ-for-Forum-Users- 

"Can I use Imgur to host images for my website, blog or forum?

You're welcome to use Imgur to host your images, as long as they do not break our Terms of Service.
If you'd like to add images to your website or blog, we recommend using Imgur's embed unit to easily make the post visible."

Thank you Imgur!

Offline 3DickUlus

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Re: Links to images seem broken
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2021, 12:43:36 PM »
"as long as they do not break our Terms of Service" ... imgur Terms Of Service is what I quoted.

but this was not part of my thought process, I only learned of it after reading their TOS

was looking into what to do when links go dead from off site storage locations, what can the site software do to prevent creating links to a problem site

members should use FF to host images and files instead of third party sites.
will try to word a guideline that reflects gerrit's sentiments.

Offline youhn

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Re: Links to images seem broken
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2021, 11:28:36 PM »
"No texts were altered, they remain, as you typed them, in the database."
You're in denial, or perhaps missing the point. It's not about what's hidden in a database, it's about what is displayed for the public. For a moment in time (thanks for the fix!) my posts have been altered, breaking the image links. I now understand this was a test and a mistake (because of other understandable priorities), which has certainly improved my set of mixed emotions. For that I'm grateful.

There was a time many years ago that I went to a big club, which had a brilliant* set of rules. Some examples from memory:

1. Not allowed to enter with a group of people (while every group came by car, because it was not in the city)
2. Group forming inside not allowed.
3. Not allowed to talk too loud, or otherwise make unacceptable noise.
4. Drunk people are not tolerated.
5. The club reserves the right to remove anyone from the private property.

So basically all common behaviour in and around a club was forbidden in the rules. The strange thing was, the club was still full of drunk, noisy groups of people. I never understood why they needed to write rule no. 1 to 4. They are not reasonable, or effective given that no. 5 can always be applied no matter what other rules.

My problem was that I took the rules too seriously. In fact the club management didn't want or need everyone to exactly follow the rules. They want to make money, and if most people are happy and pay for entry and drinks, everything is fine. Only in case of real emergency (once they throw someone out and get legal trouble), they can use this nonsense set of rules for real.

Perhaps a nice stat to know, how many seconds between an average person seeing the terms&conditions and clicking the "I Agree" button?
Do you read all terms&services?
Do you think others do?
What if you don't agree with certain pieces of the agreement?

My interpretation of Imgur is that they are fine with people posting images on blogs, forums, etc. But if you would create your own website, and (mis)use them to store all your images of your website ... that would not align with the underlying principles on which the set of rules was based. Understandably they would be angry if someone would leech a lot of bandwidth for commercial purpose. The main goal for Imgur nowadays is most probably to make money. In practice they will only take action once they feel their business model is under threat. If you pay attention to this, about 99% of the terms&conditions can be safely ignored (as is commonly done by 99% of all users).

Yes, I've accepted the t&c, but please don't give this too much value. It's just a pragmatic necessity to be able to continue. I'm not here to make money, break stuff or hurt people. Said in old Dutch language I'm here "Ter leering ende vermaeck" (to learn and have fun).

* add sarcasm


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