Thoughts on the gallery

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Offline Anon

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« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2017, 10:19:54 PM »
What is the main purpose of the Gallery Pro creating a Topic in the Fractal Image Gallery board?
So it shows up in recent topics?

Offline Sockratease

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« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2017, 10:32:58 PM »
What is the main purpose of the Gallery Pro creating a Topic in the Fractal Image Gallery board?
So it shows up in recent topics?

I thought everyone used Recent Posts  and didn't bother with Recent Topics   :rotfl:

OK, that was too hard to resist.  Sorry.  My Sarcalepsy flared up again.

The purpose of creating threads is, in my view, to accommodate the browsing style of all our users rather than force any one way of doing things on them.  If an entry is made in the gallery, it's just nice to mirror it out here - the gallery is it's own module, but it links to the forum and the threads help tie the 2 together.

But there are as many reasons as we choose to devise.  It works well on the .com site this way and there is activity in both the forum thread replies as well as the gallery comments, thus proving that both generate activity and that is why we're here!

To provide a "forum" for feedback and discussion.

Doing it this way may split the discussions into two places, but it still generates more discussion than either would alone.  And therefore it serves the purpose of this site and is a very good thing.
Study stupidity, kids. It's not getting smarter out there - Frank Zappa

Offline Anon

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« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2017, 11:14:03 PM »
Quote
I thought everyone used Recent Posts  and didn't bother with Recent Topics

I see Unread Posts and Recent Pictures.
Is there actually a Recent Posts? :stooges:

Offline Sockratease

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« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2017, 11:31:14 PM »
I see Unread Posts and Recent Pictures.
Is there actually a Recent Posts? :stooges:

Yes there is, but only those who are pure of spirit can find it.   :secret:

Offline Fraktalist

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« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2017, 11:08:41 AM »
In yorky the recent posts button is right on top, next to the recent topics button. Much easier to access.

Regarding the automatic posting of gallery-uploads:
I really don't like that feature at all. It kind of makes sense what you say, generating more threads and activity in the forum - but I think it has a huge downside. It might create the thread - but it doesn't make people actually answer to them. So the forum is flooded with images that few ever comment on.
Which leaves the creators with a feeling of "does no body care?" see the 'huge lack of comments' thread in ff.com.

I am 100% for deactivation of automatic posting!
-less but better chosen content.
-less threads but probably more answers per thread.
-the prefix problem gets solved this way.
-it balances the focus a bit more, away from art, back to math/research/programming.


Sockratease, besides that: now that we got a first larger donation, I wouldn't mind buying smfpacks gallery - if it is good enough. the question is, is it good enough? does it have all features (even more) that we need?
It has a converter from smfhacks gallery: https://www.smfpacks.com/multimediamod/#convert


Offline Sockratease

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« Reply #20 on: September 11, 2017, 11:57:13 AM »
Sockratease, besides that: now that we got a first larger donation, I wouldn't mind buying smfpacks gallery - if it is good enough. the question is, is it good enough? does it have all features (even more) that we need?
It has a converter from smfhacks gallery: https://www.smfpacks.com/multimediamod/#convert


I never compared features, but I can't imagine it not being adequate to our needs.

I just think we need A gallery, not necessarily This gallery.

I thought this one would be simplest and keep any learning curve to a minimum.

But if the Prefixes are that important to people, then it does sound like the way to go.

Do we know how it handles thread creation?  Thumbnail?  Larger thumbnails?  Full sized images?

And even if it does not support Mature Images  (which i don't know yet - haven't researched it at all)  if it makes you happier with things, I have no complaints.

I think if the main problem is the prefixes, I'd say the "Linked To Gallery" board is the best answer.

No matter how much we want to keep boards to a minimum, I suspect we are not going to be able to avoid adding quite a lot more in the future, simply due to member input.

So I'm open to either solution.

Maybe we can ask the members, but if this is giving you pause, then I see no reason not to change apart from expense.  The money may be better off spent asking the smfPacks people how much to write a plug-in that allows the smfHacks gallery to use their Prefix Thingy.

It just seems wasteful to do away with the current gallery.  But since we do own it, we may be able to teak the current gallery into something barely recognizable for special functions and use the smfPacks one as the main Gallery?

Since I do not think images threads should come from anywhere but the gallery and attachments should not be used for that purpose, I guess we're already so far from my vision of what we should be that we may as well experiment as much as the budget allows!

Offline Fraktalist

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« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2017, 01:25:37 PM »
too many thought threads and questions in here now, this is overwhelming and we're missing out previous points while adding new..

---first of all, and what has been bothering the last days is the question of automatic thread creation by the gallery.
what are your thoughts on my arguments against it, written in the last post?


---changing the gallery: if automatic thread posting is disabled, there is no need to change it. if it isn't it would make more sense to spende 24$ on a new gallery system from the guy we already have 4 plugins. all out of one hand, compatible with each other.
-----mature content: is not listed as feature of the other gallery, but to be honest, as long as there are no pornographic pictures, who minds a breast here and there? It's the internet, advertisment and tv are full of naked people. what's the point of this? for my taste too much fuzz about those 5 pictures per year that actually show mild nakedness..
and as if a 12 year old would not click on "yes I am over 18".. the whole system is insane.


---regarding importance of prefixes and seting up new boards:
I'm not opposed to set up new boards. but we should not create new boards just because ONE member asks for it. it should be supported by a few more who will actually use it. just a quick thought: find at least 5 supporters of the board-request and we will add it.
I think that prefixes are a way of minimizing the need for many new boards. boards and board-specific-prefixes go hand in hand, adding an OPTIONAL layer, that you can use whilke browsing or not. it doesn't mess with the basic structure but adds that layer of filtering content you want to see.
of course we have to do it right to work.

Offline Sockratease

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« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2017, 02:06:55 PM »
I  think the threads make too much sense to do away with.

You mentioned "It might create the thread - but it doesn't make people actually answer to them. So the forum is flooded with images that few ever comment on.  But we can never "make people actually comment" on anything!  So I don't see why that should matter.  It's giving people the place to comment that matters, and in that case - more is better.  Again "Too Much Is Better Than Not Enough"

There will always be people who prefer the gallery over threads, and the opposite.  This gives people the opportunity to use whichever way they like better.  I think taking that away would be a terrible thing to do.

So no matter which gallery - the threads are absolutely a Must Have thing in my view.

Once again our views are 100% diametrically opposed.

This calls for User Input!

And as I said - the mature content filter is great - but expendable.  It makes perfect sense to have it, and I for one would not post mature content without it, but if it's not part of whichever gallery we end up with ...  I'll miss it, but it can go.  Maybe ask about it at smfPacks?

I was not suggesting Boards be created for every request, but I do see a time where the requests will pile up and we'll be adding quite a few.  Not necessarily Image boards, but many other ones in all categories of the site.

Offline Anon

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« Reply #23 on: September 11, 2017, 11:54:01 PM »
What if the Post and Reply threads in the gallery were as good as in the forum board?  (Needs research/confirmation)
If so, there would be no need for a second Topic to be created in a forum board.

I can not tell from the thumbnails on the SMFPack page but it may turn out that their gallery mod is more fully integrated into SMF.

Fraktalist has already invested in multiple SMFPack mods that should play nice with their gallery mod.

See attached images:

Offline Sockratease

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« Reply #24 on: September 12, 2017, 12:23:51 AM »
What if the Post and Reply threads in the gallery were as good as in the forum board?  (Needs research/confirmation)
If so, there would be no need for a second Topic to be created in a forum board.

I don't understand what you mean at all.

The gallery Post and Reply stuff is already far superior to the forum threads.

Remember - I am 100% Opposed to allowing images as attachments.  I feel ALL attachments should only be tiny things - maybe 128 kb at the most.

And I don't see any good reason to use threads - it loses too much of the Community aspect of what this site was built upon.

https://fractalforums.org/gallery/?sa=listall;type=recent

See that page?

THAT is what we need.

The threads are just a bonus to keep things even more visible - but threads need to be opened one at a time to see the thumbnails, and even then it's all one person at a time.

Look at all the variety on the page I linked to!

There is no comparison.

The Gallery is the Only way to go in my opinion.

Images as attachments in threads were a concession I made reluctantly, but I will never like or use them.  Just as Frank will never like or use the gallery.

So there are two diametrically schools of thought on those.

It will never be one or the other - it must be both!

If the prefixes being universal are so important to some people, then the gallery threads go in their own board, or we use the gallery which supports them.

But I can't see stopping the gallery from making threads since it makes it the best option for both schools of thought on this question.

I think somebody is jealous that there is no way to automate a gallery post from an attached image in a thread   :sticking_out_tongue:

Offline Anon

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« Reply #25 on: September 12, 2017, 01:21:37 AM »
Quote
The gallery Post and Reply stuff is already far superior to the forum threads.

Question: Can a member edit their own comment in the gallery thread? (I am not asking about the board thread)

Also, see attached image...
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 05:10:05 AM by Anon »

Offline Anon

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« Reply #26 on: September 12, 2017, 05:50:32 AM »
Is this quoted text supposed to be in response to my post or Frank's previous post?
These are all issues that I have no control over.


Remember - I am 100% Opposed to allowing images as attachments.  I feel ALL attachments should only be tiny things - maybe 128 kb at the most.

And I don't see any good reason to use threads - it loses too much of the Community aspect of what this site was built upon.

https://fractalforums.org/gallery/?sa=listall;type=recent

See that page?

THAT is what we need.

The threads are just a bonus to keep things even more visible - but threads need to be opened one at a time to see the thumbnails, and even then it's all one person at a time.

Look at all the variety on the page I linked to!

There is no comparison.

The Gallery is the Only way to go in my opinion.

Images as attachments in threads were a concession I made reluctantly, but I will never like or use them.  Just as Frank will never like or use the gallery.

So there are two diametrically schools of thought on those.

It will never be one or the other - it must be both!

If the prefixes being universal are so important to some people, then the gallery threads go in their own board, or we use the gallery which supports them.

But I can't see stopping the gallery from making threads since it makes it the best option for both schools of thought on this question.

I think somebody is jealous that there is no way to automate a gallery post from an attached image in a thread   :sticking_out_tongue:

Offline Sockratease

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« Reply #27 on: September 12, 2017, 11:27:22 AM »
Question: Can a member edit their own comment in the gallery thread? (I am not asking about the board thread)...

Yes.  Gallery comments can be edited.  As the attached image shows.

Is this quoted text supposed to be in response to my post or Frank's previous post?
These are all issues that I have no control over.

The thought grew out of the discussion.

We're talking about removing a key feature of the gallery as if it is an annoyance.

It's an observation directed at all, not any one person in particular.

You did ask things it relates to, but nobody ever implied that whether you have control over it or not is relevant to discussing what we should do about the issue of images as attachments in threads vs images uploaded to the gallery and having threads created automatically.

The omitted part of my post was a direct response to you, the rest was tangential, but surely relevant.

This is a very important issue we need to resolve before we leave Beta Testing and Finalize our format.

Offline Fraktalist

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« Reply #28 on: September 12, 2017, 12:01:44 PM »
Yes, diametrical again..

I can just repeat what I have said. I don't see why the gallery must automaticall post EVERY single picture a user uploads automatically.
It shouldn't do that. It spams the forum and takes up more space than necessary. It shifts the balance.
I have no problem with people being interested in other aspects of fractals than me or the programmers or the mathematicians.

But I have a problem with a automatic system that enforces an imbalance of threads towards the art-aspect of fractals.
Especially as it doesn't help with more interaction.
You can see it already happening here just as in ff.com. people upload images, automatic threads are created. and only in 1 out of 5 you get an answer.
see attached screenshot. 5-7 views on average. no one is really interested if pictures are all over the place.
And that sucks for everyone who uploads an image that he actually wants to be noticed. No feedback, no response - less interest in creating more. Less interest in participating here in the long run.

If you have only let's say a third of these threads, each one will stand out more.
And they won't 'spam' the general forum. While still being all visible in the gallery.

I think the way you look at this is only watching the short-term 'positive'effect while ignoring the long term damage it causes.
That probably also played a roll in the downfall of ff.com.

disclaimer-  In case this isn't clear:
I am not against a rich art-section here, nor am I against a proper gallery.

Offline Sockratease

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« Reply #29 on: September 12, 2017, 12:21:19 PM »
I'm on the way out the door, but I'll just say that I don't agree with your assessment of what causes the lack of replies on V1.

There would need to be more evidence to imply a cause and effect relationship there  (remember the people blaming the big hurricanes lately on god's wrath over politics?)  (Some political thing happens, then a hurricane hits - it must be cause and effect, right?)

I'd suggest, as the only viable experiment we can run, that we just move gallery generated threads to their own board.

Simplest, cheapest, way to start.  And easily undone if there is a Member Revolution and they demand it go back to the way it was.

We can always take further steps later if deemed necessary.


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